E I Addio

1. The general consensus of opinion on the forum seems to be that when a poster resorts to name calling it is because he has no other sensible argument to rely on.. If calling me a card is the best you can do you might as well stop digging. 2.So you don't believe the PL promoters were asked to join the party. Have you spoken to any of them ? If not what are the grounds of your belief (apart from figments of imagination)? 3. You have ignored my comments on pre-AGM announcements so I presume you were unaware of them when lurching into your tirade. 4. I have not attempted to justify anything, In fact I do have certain reservations. I have merely pointed out certain facts which undermine your claim that it was all cobbled together on the spur of the moment, and it y really is a pity that some people don't check some facts first so that they can offer constructive criticism in a mature debate instead of a tirade based on supposition. 5.Thank you and goodnight Agreed, but their are now some young kids at the Hagon Shocks Academy that had never ev en sat on a speedway bike until a few months ago but under tuition of Rob Mear some are showing real progress. This is something that should have been done years ago but wasn't, but better late than never. It means giving more kids a chance to start young.

Totally incorrect. What did Jon Cook say about it as long ago as last July? It was reported on this forum for those who bothered to read it (although it appears you couldn't be bothered). What did Jon Cook say in his pre-AGM statement ? Something else it seems you couldn't be bothered to read before lurching into your rant, if you had read it you would know the primary reason for restructuring the league. It was clearly not something thought up on the spur of the moment as you consistently claim. Nobody has said in any official press release that the primary reason for restructuring is to help young Brits. Having said that, if you had any idea what is going on at the Hagon Shocks Academy(something of which you clearly have no knowledge at all), it would be pretty obvious that something like this was the next logical step, although it has arrived sooner rather than later. It is a great pity that the PL promoters were not able to involve themselves in this scheme at this stage , although for perfectly understandable reasons explained by Jon Cook at the fans forum last week (which you obviously couldn't be bothered to attend ). I am not offering an opinion , merely suggesting you stick to facts . By quoting something that wasn't said you are putting the debate on the wrong course.

No Sidney, that's not what Cook said at all. The reading lessons are not coming along very well are they ? Go and check what Cook actually said, instead of what you imagined he said..

Well, lets put it this way; Lewis, Lawson and Bech come to 16.15.If you were to add PK and Dave Watt it would give a total of 31.66.

Here we go again. We have the same thing every year butt still the penny doesn't drop with some people. We have the AGM when the main structure is agreed then a few months later comes the post-AGM meeting and then the rules are published. It's not just these particular rules, so unless you have a crystal ball you don't know at this stage what the final draft of the rules will be. The season doesn't start until March so even if we were to say, for the sake of argument that the whole idea is a mess right now, what really matters is what is in force as from 1st March 2014, then you can jump up and down and stamp your feet as much as you like I am not saying its going to be ideal. Once you take the decision to put NL riders in an EL team there are always going to have to be compromises that reduce the overall compatibility of the competition, no doubt about that. All I am saying is there is no point in people going into overdrive and ranting about it if they don't yet fully understand how the system is going to work. Its a pity PL promoters wouldn't or couldn't have NL British reserves but we are stuck with that. Some of these things should have been started years ago and introduced more gradually but they weren't so we just have to make the best of it.

The answer is staring you in the face but if you can't work it out you'll have to wait for the rules. You won't like it of course because you won't like whatever they do, but for the moment just accept that you are completely wrong in banging on about reserves Coming out to replace a number one etc. Wait for the rules to be published then you can bang on to your hearts content about rules that actually exist instead of finding fault with rules that exist only in your imagination

How do you know that if the rules not been published ? Don't you think it would make more sense to wait and see how the 2014 rules govern No 6&7 riders.?? It obviously suits your agenda to base your fault-finding on speculation rather than fact but until you know what the rules say you are simply guessing. If you stop and think about it for about two milliseconds it is quite possible to formulate an arrangement whereby the !-5 might cover to some extent for each other..

You have to laugh. A rider apparently gets the wrong end of the stick, the forum mal-contents take it as gospel and go into meltdown, Wizzer clarifies the position with the rider , but the forum experts (Who have absolutely no idea how it is going to work) are predicting Armageddon. Give it a break guys. We haven't even had the post-AGM meeting yet , let alone rules being published and the season is still 4 months away. The only thing we can say for sure is Phil Morris is known to be a good bloke , has a passion for the sport and up till now has never really put his name to anything that is detrimental to youth training so maybe one or two should wait until we have the complete picture before jumping in with their size 13's. Plenty of time for that, if necessary when all the details are out.

No. That's not correct but we'll pretend it is because it's easier to moan about the untruth than the truth. It should be easy to work out with a bit of lateral thinking, but if you can't then it will become clear when the rules are published.

In one sense that is correct, but when you have a discussion forum and someone comes on and says "This is my opinion and I am not prepared to discuss my reasons for thinking this way " it kind of defeats the object of a forum for discussion.

You re talking completely out of you depth unless you have seen and can understand the x-rays. It all depends on the position and severity of the fracture. . Some ,riders have head or spinal injuries from which they recover well and are not necessarily worse than other injuries. Amongst other things Chris has apparently injured his os calcis (heel) and hip. These are both weight-bearing joints, and although you are content to dismiss it as "broken bones-which will heal" you don't know how well they will heal or whether they will heal in the correct position. With injuries of this nature _(i.e.to weight bearing joints) there is a pretty fair chance that he will never be completely pain free, possibly have one leg shorter than the other and/or always walk with a limp and quite likely be an early candidate for an artificial hip replacement. These are even by speedway standards very, very serious injuries. If you don't like him just say you don't like him, no need to wriggle round by suggesting the injuries " will heal" when you don't really know and suggest they are less serious than spinal or head injuries necessarily. Time will tell but personally I will be very surprised if he gets back to his pre-accident level of ability.

They have the money to always pay the riders on time and that is an important factor for many riders with bills to pay..

People don't realise how much concentration it takes to ride in three leagues and still give your best. There is a lot more to it than simply turning up and getting on a bike...There are plenty of riders who feel that their optimum is around 55-60 meetings a year before their form drops off. Riders like Hans Andersen who can keep up a hectic schedule as they get older are the exceptions. Freddie Lindgren has made it quite clear that his reason for quitting Britain is so he has more time to prepare for his GP commitments, and Chris said he took his decision after talking to other senior riders. Looking back we have seen a number eventually leaving British speedway as they got older. In fact if I remember correctly Gollob didn't even do Sweden last year. Greg only came last season because he lost his job in Poland when his team missed the play-offs. Most only want to ride here when the Continental seasons are coming to an end. Looking at Chris 'record and Freddie's record in Britain I don't think either of them have ever really let anybody down and its a bit churlish to criticise them now. Both are great riders but this is how it will be for British speedway for the foreseeable future. Its not just points money , the sponsorship is far better on the continent.and overheads are lower.

In your efforts to appear cleverer than the rest and present the BSPA as total fools it is yourself you have made look foolish. The BSPA have announced a package of measures which are inter -dependent and have to be looked at as a whole, not individually. Lets have a look at some of these "half-arsed ideas at the drop of a hat".- 1. Sticking with riders who are prepared to commit to a full season of British Speedway rather than disappearing off to continental meetings as and when it suits them. What a half -arsed idea that is. Everybody knows how much the fans want to see r/r and guests as often as possible. 2. Increasing the league programme from 28 meetings to 36 , so those riders committed to British Speedway can earn reasonable living. I can see why you are against that half -arsed idea. And of course all the EL fans think 14 home matches was too many anyway didn't they.? As for it being made up at the drop of a hat, sorry to disappoint you but Jon Cook announced last July that he and his fellow promoters were looking at ways of increasing the number of meetings in 2014.But of course you wouldn't know that would you ?Ignoring the facts makes it easier to make dumb comments about the ideas being at the drop of a hat. 3.In increasing the number of fixtures it is necessary to reduce the cost per meeting. If people like Bob Dugard are losing £70k per 14 meetings then 18 meetings will lose him £90k unless costs are reduced, To any thinking person it must be reasonably obvious that these have been necessary measures to take. Never mind about past mistakes that got us into this situation, this is where we are now and this is what is being addressed. Are you with me so far ? I doubt it but lets continue . 4.A key element in cutting costs per meeting and trying to bring the long term stability of a good supply of British riders is the fast tracking idea. Yes I know that something could have been done years ago but it wasn't, and I now the NL boys could go through the PL route but that wouldn't save EL costs so what we have is the only show in town, if the whole package is going to work. Stick to the PL if that's what makes you happy, but to strand on the side lines and make silly comments about the quality of BSPA press releases only makes you look silly. The post AGM press releases have been like that for years. Nothing new there but what you fail to understand is that the press releases are the least of our problems right now. The immediate issue is getting a full league programme in 2014 without any more clubs going under and at least something is being done to turn the corner. When or the day comes when the most important topic is the quality of BSPA press releases most us will be happy to debate it,. Of course you could always attend Jon Cooks forum next Friday and tell him how half-arsed and at the drop of a hat it all is but somehow I doubt that you will. I see Tsunami has already dealt with your crass comments about the reason Neil Machin has sold up.

OK. To put it as succinctly as I can, it seems to me British Speedway needs to achieve three things in order to survive :- 1. To keep losses to a sustainable level so no more clubs go out of business. None of us have access to the accounts but with the exception of Peterborough we presume that the fact all the rest are running, suggests they all think they can make a go of it, so hopefully we are over the first hurdle, otherwise its simply no promoters= no speedway. 2. We need a better league programme than 28 meetings partly because experience has showed that with a mere 14 home meetings a number of fans drift off into other interests, and partly because riders like Craig Cook who don't yet have jobs abroad need to earn a decent living in the top league and not spend half their lives doubling up. We are promised 36 EL fixtures, which sounds like an improvement to me, so I would think most people are reasonably happy up to this point. Now comes the controversial bit. 3.There needs to be a steady supply of British riders so that in the long-term future we don't have to incur the massive cost of bringing foreign riders over, and we don't slip back to the pattern of clubs incurring massive debt as in recent years. Personally I don't particularly want to see two NL races in an EL meeting but unlike some on here I recognise that speedway doesn't exist just for me , it exists for all fans at all clubs so if that's what it takes to achieve points 1&2 above then I'll get behind it and support it. Of course, the devil is in the detail and their are some answered questions that need to be sorted, but personally I am not to fussed about that at this stage. Jon Cook is meeting Lakeside supporters n Friday and he will be filling in the details and answering questions. No doubt other promotions will be doing similar things in the course of time. Those who genuinely want answers can attend these things. Yes ,I know it would be nice if all the implications had been published already but the reality is that the season doesn't start for another 5 months so personally I can't get too wound up about the detail at this stage. No doubt more will be revealed When Cookie delivers his discourse, on Friday,.

So basically you are he only one that has thought it through and you must be right because you say so ? I think it is pretty clear to all except those who will never be satisfied, that there are a lot of details yet to be filled in, possibly with some fine tuning /modifications needed. There are probably more questions than answers at the moment, but surely it makes more sense to wait for the complete picture, and certainly it would be daft IMO not to wait and see what Jon Cook has to say next Friday before jumping to conclusions. As has already been said we have got an increased home league programme, up from 14 meetings t0 18. We have got rid of the ridiculous system of facing some teams twice and some teams once, and we have a system for fast tracking young talent for which all details are not yet clear. These are all things that people have been demanding on here for years. We couldn't stay where we were. We are not yet where we need to be but a step has been taken in the right direction. The full picture has yet to evolve but I am amazed that the usual suspects are prepared to condemn it on the basis of relatively limited information.

On the other hand it doesn't make him any less of an expert than you. Unless you have a crystal ball I am not sure why your opinions which you have set out so dogmatically should carry any more weight than Tai's,

Except that Christer wasn't the top man. Olle Nygren was.

Spot on. My views entirely. Add to that the fact that we are now rid of the ridiculous system of meeting some teams once and some teams twice, although none of the moaners have applauded that. In a perfect world I would rather not have NL reserves ride in EL teams but we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where clubs like Eastbourne were losing over £9 on every punter that walked though the turnstiles. In Peterborough's case it was nearly £10 lost per customer per meeting. Several others, including 2 of the 4 play-off finalists were losing big money. We clearly couldn't go on like that. The starting point for me is the if we didn't get more regular league meetings the sport would die anyway . That issue has been addressed. Having increased the number of meetings , costs clearly had to be cut. If some clubs were losing unsustainable sums in 14 meetings there is no point in increasing the losses by increasing the number of meetings without cutting the cost per meeting, and that's what they have done. We are where we are not where we would like to be. This could be the start of the long road back to where we want to be, but I think we should at least wait and see what the team sheets look like and how the season starts to pan out before passing judgment.

Wrong. Every year the riders get fixed up in Poland first, Sweden second and UK third because that's where the money is and that's where the sponsorship is, and if you doubled the UK points it would still be the same because the money abroad d is so much better.

Maybe you should return to your true home before the men in white coats come to take you back.

http://www.lakesidehammers.co/content/?p=6462

It may not be necessary to cut the points limit. If, as Cook seems to be hinting, every rider has to commit to a full British season without disappearing for big international meetings abroad in preference to EL matches, all the top earners will be gone anyway so presumably they could build to a limit of say 42 without breaking the bank, and we could still be left with some decent riders like perhaps Peter Karlsson and Rory Schlein, possibly even Kenny Bjerre, who says he wants to ride here. Depends what is finally agreed. CLearly cost control is the priority in all three leagues because a number are saying that won't run again at the present level of losses. If Eastbourne lost £70,000 last year, and Peterborough lost £100,000 as has been publicised, then without the Sky income those losses would be £170,000+ and £200,000+ which would be unsustainable even for wealthy men like Frost and Dugard. At the same time with average attendances of 770 for Eastbourne and 700 for Peterborough Dugard and Frost are astute enough to know they can't afford to lose any more support. I don't know about Bellevue but I presume their figures are equally as dire and the problems at Swindon and Brum are well publicised so personally I think that they all must know that they have to work together and things have moved on since 2010.

From the Lakeside website- Representatives of the Vortex Hammers travel to Coventry for this year’s British Speedway Promoters Association’s AGM, hopeful that the sports leaders will oversee a return to more regular racing and also banish the unpopular Tactical Ride rule to history. Vortex Hammers Co-Promoter Jon Cook commented: “There is no getting away from the fact that this is the most important AGM of modern times and a real opportunity to bring about changes that will put British Speedway, its fans and its own riders first. Whilst we await the conclusion of TV contract talks, the period has given us time throughout the sport to reflect on both the good and bad elements that have evolved ever since the Elite clubs made the decision in 1997 to form a league to secure TV coverage, which was achieved a year later.” He continued “For our own club and many others, we are now running at too large an expense per meeting and as a result of other clubs wishes, have reduced our league programme to below a level acceptable to our landlords, our riders, who don’t have the luxury of riding in multiple leagues, our sponsors and most importantly our fans. The problem we now have is that expense is too great to add in another half a dozen meetings at the current levels, as we have all got business plans dependent upon dividing our off-track revenues by 14 meetings and not 20. Therefore, real change is required to return to regular Friday speedway, regardless of what future TV contracts bring to the sport. That is our priority over the coming weekend. At the very least we want three meetings a month with the fourth week free for potential rain offs. Team strengths should be secondary to that need. Let the riders that want to commit to British speedway first and foremost and not hide behind the international calendar when it suits, be our priority too. And finally let’s throw the Tactical Ride rule in the bin. The greatest promoter of all time, speedways father, Johnnie Hoskins used to set fire to his hat. I think we should start the 2014 season with a ceremonial burning of the black and white helmet colour from Plymouth to Edinburgh and every track in between.” Fair play to Jon Cook for nailing his colours to the mast before the AGM. I think most fans will agree with his sentiments so lets hope none of the others torpedo it. Based on what Cookie said over the mic in the summer I daresay CVS and Matt Ford are of the same mind. The sport is now drinking in the Last Chance Saloon. Let's hope that between them they pull it off.