E I Addio

Good point. We have seen half a dozen rival organisations in boxing all with their own version of the world championship at the same time all with different champions, we have seen cricketers go for the money outside the established international sport, we now have moto-cross run by an organisation to rival the ACU and on a smaller scale we have even seen a pirate league in speedway in the past. When you have rival organisations like we have now in speedway you can't rule anything in and you can't rule anything out. The FIM and their TV broadcasters need to get their act together to get it sorted . Its only a trickle now but if next year riders like Lindgren and Bjerre for example were to follow Emil and Gollob the SGP would start to look a bit uncompetitive. The lower order of the SGP line-up doesn't look all that great even now.

I tend to share orions view. If and I stress IF Emil has a blinder of a year then whoever wins the title will have the question hanging over him of "Would he still have won if Emil had been there?". You are correct in saying a rider who doesn't compete shouldn't have the title of world champion but whether the winner can be said to be the best rider in the world without Emil there will be the subject of debate for years to come.

The irony !

Seems like Walter Mitty has completely flipped.

I think you are being just a tad harsh on a bloke you don't really know but I don't want to be an apologist for him and I certainly don't wantt to finish up sounding like Sidney so perhaps I'll quietly leave you to your opinions and do my best to remain neutral.

I have to give Darcy his due. He came and rode for nothing at the Lee Richardson Memorial, (as did all the other riders) put on a great show and rode brilliantly for his max. Could have justifiably ridden at half pace put really went for the result and helped to make to occasion a memorable one. He didn't have to come and ride but he came and did the occasion proud. That must always stand to his credit and I admire him for it.. Some of his past off track behaviour is regrettable but we can't hold that against him forever. It is quite amusing that people who have never met him somehow think they know exactly what he has to do to take the 2014 World Championship. I don't think one should underestimate his ability in all departments as far as the sport is concerned. The Lakeside -v-Poole challenge match at the start of the season has been postponed because Darcy has to ride in Poland that day. That speaks volumes for the mans crowd-pulling power. Without him Poole are just another team as far as the turnstiles are concerned and have been replaced with a match against Swindon. All top riders have fans who like them and those who don't, for no particular reason. Nonsense to suggest that Darcy is popular or unpopular because he is captain of Poole . Its not the Poole captaincy the fans have an issue with. Its the promoter.

There is a fair bit there that I can agree with you on, particularly in the first two paragraphs, and of course I agree this dire financial situation didn't occur overnight. Unfortunately we can't change the past, we can only hope that lessons have been learned. Hopefully this will prove to be a wake-up call but the sport remains on a knife edge.

Yes, and it would also give us another year of clubs losing big money and fans only getting 14 home meetings in 6 months, and another year of racing some opposing teams twice and some only once. Another year of certain clubs not having enough money to pay their riders, and a high chance that certain clubs wouldn't be coming to the tapes in 2014, one of which may well have been your own club, Kings Lynn , since Buster Chapman was one of those claiming he couldn't afford to run more than 14 home meetings with costs running at the level they were. We have already lost Peterborough, few people doubt that others would have gone if drastic measures were not taken and taken quickly.. Irrespective of whether the new arrangement is a good idea or a bad one the one thing they couldn't do was to hang around for another year before attempting to cut costs in a big way.

With respect mate, you are losing sight of the fact that the object of the exercise is to save money. All of us would like to bona fide reserves riding in the top league, but the reality is, for about the hundredth time, if the sport carried on as it did last year certain clubs would be closing their doors. So, now the decision has been taken to include NL riders at reserve we are not going to get an ideal set-up and there are going to be things about it that we don't like, but its either that or a decimated top league. The other side of the coin, and the positive aspect which people are forgetting is that we are now going to have more league matches, and we have got rid of the utterly ridiculous arrangement where teams met some opponents twice in a season and others once. To my mind that was one of the daftest ideas ever to hit speedway, and qualification for the play-offs could never be said to be a level playing field while that arrangement existed. So what does the paying punter know he can look forward to ? Well, we have sides with certain drawbacks arising from NL reserves but we don't yet know all the details so it could work out better than some think or it could be worse. We simply don't know and even if the heat format is published in advance we still won't really be able to make a valued judgment until a few weeks into the season ( apart from those who are determined to find fault whatever) but what we do know is that there will be more meetings and although there will still be some weeks without meetings it won't be anything like as bad as last year where at time we had weeks on end with no racing. In addition we know all teams will meet each other twice which is what many fans have been calling for. So on balance I would say we are likely to see an improvement over last year. If you are happy with PL racing then good for you, but as a primarily EL supporter I am pleased to be looking forward to getting back to a full season of racing with a 10 team league. There may be downsides we have to swallow but better that than the gaps in the fixture list we had last year.

My thoughts exactly :D

I'll spell it out for you in the simplest terms I can muster. 1. An admission charge of £17 was insufficient to cover the costs of running an Elite League meeting for most clubs in 2013. For example Eastbourne lost £9 on every punter that walked through the turnstiles . Peterborough lost even more. Swindon lost so much they couldn't afford to pay their riders. 2. Given the scale of the losses there were two choices: either increase admission or reduce costs. They have opted to keep admission the same and reduce costs. If they reduced admission they would still be losing money on a massive scale. Now, that's not a difficult concept to grasp is it ? BTW, I am fully aware of all the various suggestions that have been made to increase attendances, but let's not go there on this particular thread. Its been done to death on other threads. There are all kinds of arguments that can be made to increase revenue but reducing admission is a non starter, and as for charging the same for an EL meeting as a PL that really is a nonsensical concept.

Interestingly in one breath you agree with me that there is no easy answer, and in the next breath you say "it really is that simple", Which is it ? What do you say in answer to stevebrums question are you suggesting that the EL should be cheaper than PL ? The matter of whether folk are getting value for money is a subjective test. Plenty of people come on here and post that in their opinion the PL is better racing, so in their eyes its got nothing to do with a lesser standard of rider.. Reducing the admission is still not going to put several hundred on the gate . Of more importance IMO is having top stars present whiich we still have. . If Coventry are in town its Hans Andersen and Chris Harris that I want to see. It makes no odds to me (and I daresay plenty of others ) whether Jason Garrity is at reserve or Adam Roynon. When Belle Vue are down Matej Zagar is the one that brings the punters in and he will still be there. Are you really saying that people will stay away because for £17 they want to see Ales Dryml at No 6 or 7 ? Anyway Newcastle are unaffected by all this so I don't really see what you are getting exercised about.

The EL is only £1-£2 dearer than most PL clubs anyway. Are you suggesting that the EL should have lower admission than the PL ? According to the owners of the clubs concerned Peterborough lost £100,000 last year and Eastbourne lost £70,000. I don't know if any other losses have been published but my understanding is that only two EL clubs made a profit and one other ,fell a little short of breaking even.. Several others made big losses. Swindon couldn't afford to pay their riders. This is no joking matter. How can you seriously suggest prices should be reduced ? As a principle perhaps but in the world of economics the next step would be going out of business. Nobody likes paying £17 but I doubt whether many promoters are overjoyed at the prospect of losing tens of thousands of pounds either. The sport is in dire straits financially (as are many others) and there is no easy answer.

He has got a point, but so has stevebrum IMO. Only time will tell how it pans out. I know some take a different view but personally I don't see the point of getting worked up about something we have no control over . Whatever happens we are going to start the season with two NL reserves in each team, and we are going to have a heat format that accommodates that arrangement for better or for worse. Nothing will change that now. Not sure it justifies a thread 33 pages long Just a shame that people resort to calling others thick, apart from when its by way of good natured banter.

http://www.lakesidehammers.co/content/?p=6880 This is for the benefit of those who constantly complain about clubs doing nothing to raise the profile of the sport in the local community. I am sure Lakeside are not the only club taking this sort of initiative but these things involve a lot of hard work and its easy for those who are not aware of these things to point the finger and criticise.

As ever, those who are unable to accept that anyone can have a view contrary to their own, have to turn to personal insults instead of producing facts to support their suppositions.

Briggo was a bit of an inconsistent gater but when he was on form he was out of this world. I still have the programme from the last of Briggos British Championship wins at West Ham. The number 2 gate wasn't working that night , everone on No2 except Mauger was coming third or last. Mauger struggled to a second place in a relatively weak heat. Then Briggo came out on No2 gate for his fourth ride and waltzed away from the start as if the rest were on moped's . I have never seen gating like Briggo was doing that night. He collected a brilliant 15 point max without breaking sweat and without getting his bike dirty and that included beating Mayger, Ronnie Moore and Nigel Boocock. To my mind there has never been a rider to touch Briggo when he was on his best form, except arguably Darcy ward. The trouble was Briiggo was not always at his best, and I think part of the problem was that at times he relied too much on natural talent and let the mechanical side of things slip a bit. Mauger on the other hand didn't make it to the top until his late twenties and he seems to have done it by getting his machinery spot on with top tuners etc. I think the greatest tribute to Briggs is that Ivan Mauger said that if there was no Barry Briggs there would have been no Ivan Mauger because Ivan knew that if he was going to get to the top Briggs was the one he had to beat and he spent years working out how he was going to beat him.

I have tried to find the alternate video (taken from behind the riders) on youtube but it seems to have been taken off, which is a pity. I have seen it though and I have to agree with the previous poster who says that from that angle it shows no contact. With respect Grachan, your explanation depends on Carter being wrong about his leg being taken away. Of course, in the heat of the race and heat of the moment he could be mistaken but then again he was the bloke on the bike, so his explanation should be given at least the same weight as yours. I doubt if anyone knows the 100% truth but I don't think there is enough information to say with any certainty that the ref made the wrong decision.

Again that is something which we shall have to wait and see, but we still have the starting point that NL riders have been drafted in at reserve as a costs saving measure and they are not going to change that just because the formula is difficult to plan. Riders in individual meetings always have back-to-back rides. I have seen riders who take an r/r ride go out 3 times in the last four heats, so although its not ideal, if it has to be that way then that's the way it will be because the over-riding objective is to keep NL reserves in the team. I always find curious that people in speedway think it so arduous to have two or three rides 60 second rides with only a short break in between when top moto-cross riders will ride a 30 or 40 minute first leg on a for more arduous course than a speedway track then race a second leg. I know speedway is a sprint and requires a different type of preparation mentally but in the context of a race format I hardly think this would be a major issue. What seems to be more difficult is a No1 going out in heat 1 then having a long break until heat 7. However, the fact remains that we cannot make any sort of judgment until we know what the formula is and all this "what if " is pure speculation at this stage.

You are doing it again. Why do you assume those with a different point of view to your own are burying their heads in the sand ? There seem to be other intelligent and knowledgeable fans who don't share your opinions. This is a debating forum not a "yes I agree with everything GRW 123 says forum " . If your choice in life is to take the view that your opinion is the only valid one and anyone who disagrees is burying their heads in the sand then with respect a debating forum is not the best place to b.

No , I don't suppose all speedway supporters are that dumb and there is absolutely nothing in my post to suggest I do. That is just a piece of hyperbole you have thrown in to shore up your position instead of dealing with the substance of my post. There are possibly 800-1000 regular users of this forum and the vast majority have not expressed an opinion on this thread so how on earth could I , or anyone else express the opinion that they are dumb ? That is just a stupid comment for you to make. You next say my reasons for the delay are mind blowing, which is a very odd thing to say as I haven't given any reasons. I am merely advancing the proposition that whenever the new heat format is revealed won't make any difference . If it is rubbish it will still be rubbish when the season starts and if it is good it will still be good when the season starts. The date of the announcement won't change that. At the moment you do not know whether the format will be good or bad but your posts seem to assume the worst. That is your prerogative but keep in mind you only speak for yourself, just as all posters do. if you don't like not being told about the new format fair enough , but to talk about "the educated fans could see all the problems" and "WE all hoped" is presumptuous in the extreme firstly because there are plenty of apparently intelligent fans that have posted opinions different from your own and secondly the vast majority have not voiced an opinion at all so your use of the Royal "we" is nonsense because you have no idea what they think. Of course there will be problems and teething troubles with the draft rider scheme and of course I , and I daresay most others would prefer full top line riders at reserve rather than NL standard riders but the reality is that when clubs are making eye-watering losses ( Peterborough £100,000, Eastbourne £70,000 etc) then drastic steps have to be taken and you cant make an omelette without breaking eggs so of course there will be problems. It will not be a perfect arrangement. We all know that, we have to live with it if we want to continue supporting the sport in 2014. As I said before we won't really know how it is panning out until maybe several weeks into the season and that seems to be the time for judgment. As one of the American presidents (I think it was Roosevedt) said " I have spent most of my life worrying about things , most of which never happened" , so perhaps we should have a bit of patience.

I think you are mixing up two separate things there. The thread is about the new race format and how teams can be built without knowing the race format. The matter of averages, guests etc, is outside the scope of the thread so lets put that on one side for a moment and come back it in a minute. The thing that people have been getting their knickers in a twist about, especially over the last few pages is the fact that the heat format has not been published and we have seen comments like "treating the fans with contempt" etc, but is it really that big a deal ? Lets consider two possible scenarios :- 1. Lets assume that the heat formula when published is absolute rubbish, the worst formula anyone could possibly devise. If that's the case its still going to be absolute rubbish when the season starts because they are not going to suddenly change it because some people on here don't like it. If they don't release it until the first meeting of the season all it means is that some people will have 3 months less to moan about it, but it will still be the same formula. 2. Lets now assume the heat formula is the most brilliant formula anyone could possibly devise. There will still be a few chronic complainers on here that find fault with it and , once again , if it is not released until the first meeting it simply means that some people have 3 months less to moan about it. Realistically the new formula will probably fall between scenario 1 and scenario 2, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating, in other words we won't really know how well it works until a couple of months into the season, but even then a good meeting will also depend on a multitude of other factors like track prep, delays and weather etc, so I really don't see what there is to get worked up about at this stage. Things like the imbalance between the quality of the reserves is a far more serious matter IMO. Turning now to your comments about r/r , calculation of averages etc , I take your point but in any walk of life new systems and new arrangements are very often subject to fine tuning but if we separate all that from the heat formula is it really something to get worked up about ? I am not sure the averages need much adjustment anyway as even on the old formula the second strings had two rides against reserves and its not beyond the realms of possibility that some of the more talented reserves on their home track will occasionally take points off a visiting second string. I honestly cant 'see why people are getting in a frazzle over it all. It will all be on us soon enough and we will see than whether it works or not. It would be of casual interest to know what the formula is but its hardly life and death as some are trying to have us believe.

So what's your problem ? We were told 3 months ago that the reserves would have two protected heats against each other and two against second strings yet we still have the chronic complainers on here worrying about mis-matched riders. All we don't know is the actual riding order of heats. For many seasons now we have seen heats with riders like Ales Dryml going against Darcy Ward or Some PL d/u rider in the same race as Freddie Lindgren but I can't remember anyone coming on here and complaining about the formula. We also saw the No1's going against each other at least twice, and usually three times. We still have 15 heats, the reserves still have four programmed rides, the heatleaders will still meet each other and meet the second strings. Once the race formula is released its hardly going to contain any earth shattering surprises. I think some people ought to get out more.

Can you identify the interview ? As far as I am aware he has made no public comments specifically stating whether reserves would have protected heats, although all the powers that be seem to imply that will be the case without actually saying so.

Then we'd have you complaining about a so-called "British " league that consisted of mostly foreign riders.