E I Addio

Some disagreement among the forum "experts" apparently !

There are plenty of meetings were an infringement of the rules doesn't result in a protest or appeal because it doesn't affect the result. If Lakeside had won then obviously there would be no point at all in stumping up £500 to lodge an appeal because it would not change the result. That's not a difficult concept to grasp is it ? Yes, it is a Forum and it exists for discussion. The bald statement that it was "pure sour grapes " without any facts to support the conclusion is hardly "discussion" more mud slinging. All a bit childish. The question of the efficiency of the SCB as an organisation is irrelevant at this stage as we don't know how they will handle it although some may say past record suggests there will be no decision until they know what if any effect it may or may not have on play-offs qualifiers, and Sky's approval thereof , but who knows ?

As expected the usual tripe from the forums Chief Lakeside Hater, who, like the rest of us wasn't in the pits, doesn't know what was said, doesn't know what procedures were followed or if they were the correct ones, doesn't know what, if any medical checks were carried out or by whom, doesn't know what sort of injury was diagnosed by the medic or whether it was the right diagnosis, doesn't know what was said by Adam or Neil Vatcher, doesn't know the basis of Lakesides appeal, but is somehow still able to conclude it is pure sour grapes. Whether or not the Lakeside appeal has any merit remains to be seen but anyone with reasonable common sense knows that in these tough economic times, cash-strapped clubs don't throw a £500 appeal in unless they feel there is a bit more substance to it than " pure sour grapes". Good post . It really highlights that like a lot of things in speedway there is a need for consistency in decisions. If To take it to extremes you could have in theory have a ride pulled out of a meeting just because he is shaken up by a fall, if the medic is overly cautious but others would leave him in. If Tai is able to ride in a GP with broken collarbone when he admits he can feel the bones rubbing together then that standard should apply down the line to other meetings. Can anybody imagine Nicki Pedersen being pulled out while he is still "walking wounded" ? We have seen in the past Kenny Carter racing in so much pain he had to be lifted on and off his bike, and countless other examples. TBF, we don't yet know what injury was diagnosed but unless it was some kind of head injury (which of course one should be very cautious about) its difficult at the moment to see what sort of injury could rule a rider out if he thinks he can cope with the pain. We only have to think back to Bomber in the 2010 play-off final when we were all surprised when he even got off the track, let alone came out and won the re -run and the rest of his races. If he was not pulled out of that meeting its difficult to see why Adam should have been pulled out last night unless there was some very good reason we don't know about. Of course, though this is speedway. OK to run a meeting on a dangerous track to heat11 last September when one club is involved who Sky want in the Play-offs but that doesn't apply to other clubs.

Adam Ellis on twitter : "How can a paramedic who admitted he didn't know anything about speedway decide if your race fit even when you prove him wrong?"

Ah, so that's what Brum are up to. Come 1st June will we see the Brummies re-declare with a bunch of top-class continentals who just happen to not have dates that clash with the EL fixture list ? Maybe, but somehow I don't think so.

Interestingly, it was a much better meeting than the rubbish we had last week. Jon Cook's forthright programme notes suggest that the penny has dropped and some shaking up has been going on behind the scenes. These were some of his comments in the programme ;- ".....we have been somewhat patchy with good starts followed by pretty poor form in the second half of meetings. That needs to be worked on as in both the home meetings so far its been the baby of the team, Adam that's had to come in and steady the ship. That's clearly not an ideal situation............One area in which we really need to pull our act together is the presentation and timings of meetings. I can only apologise and say we are making changes.........Watching a tractor go round is no entertaining... it doesn't need to come out as early as heat2.........we should all be heading off home between9.30 and 9.45 latest " And things certainly were different. The track looked the best it has looked for a long time and stayed good for 15 heats. The tractor didn't come out until after heat 5 and was only out, as I recall, about 3 times in the whole meeting. The whole thing was done and dusted including the victory parade before 9.40 from an 8pm start. So in terms purely of presentation it really shows that the sport can be made quite entertaining if people get a grip on the organisational side of things, even in a one-sided match. Lets hope this continues and some others follow suit. The Lakeside team were also more fired up than we have seen so far. Davey was absolutely in a class of his own with some fabulous sweeps around the first two bends, Bech showed he had a lot of courage as well as talent, and Lewis who has had an indifferent season so far was on fire (with no showboating despite a paid max) and I thought his pass on Danny King squeezing right against the fence was the ride of the night. But for me the highlight was Ben Morely. Its taken Ben a while to find his feet but he seems to have come on in leaps and bounds almost overnight. His defeat of Adam Skornicki was a really mature ride that really took a cool head. I don't know what to say about Brum that's not already been said. I feel for the fans. It was a little unfortunate they came on the week that Jon Cook seems to have gone round like a new broom firing his own side up but apart from Adam Skornicki and Daniel Nermark one had the feeling their hearts weren't in it. Riders don't go to a meeting not to bother, they were obviously trying and they have riders who have scored well in past visits (Danny King for example had 3 wins last time he came) but it just seems they need someone like Wizzer who can pull all the threads together, keep their heads up when its tough and get the best from them, because its not happening at the moment. Kennett is a prime example. In heat 10 he got a flyer and was away and gone with a fast win over PK , looking just like the Eddie of 3 years ago when he was a pretty decent rider, but in the rest of his races when he didn't get the gate he just fell further behind . The lad clearly has reasonable talent but something is not bringing it out all the time these days.

So.....if Holders average drops slightly to just below Wards (as it may well do on the new heat format) and the rest increase their lower averages (which Shamek is already on the way to doing) so the team average goes over 32 then Ward be not be able to get back in........unless Josh or the other bloke get a taste of Uncle Matt's "loyalty" and find themselves replaced by some other Herbert ? Interesting.

I actually thought it was smart move by Neil Vatcher to put Morley in heat 13 , in place of Bridger. Consider Vatch's options: He could leave Lewis in Heat 13 , but on the basis of his previous 3 rides it seems highly likely he wouldn't score. He could have put Ellis is but against NKI and Bjerre it is highly likely he wouldn't score either r, or he could also put Ben in, (which he in fact did) who also would only pick up a point if gifted by a KL fall or engine failure, so whatever Vatch did there would likely be a last place for Lakeside. However by putting Ben in heat 13 Vatch was able to put Adam Ellis out against Lambert and Rose in heat 14 and paired with Bech he took a 5-1over the KL pair which in in theory kept the match alive and the final score half -decent. Would that damage Bens confidence ? I don't think so. For one thing he his regularly hitting double figures and getting wins in the NL so he is ok there, and also as a speedway rider learning is trade he has to get experience of lining up against the big guns and getting beat. That's something every rider has to deal with if they are going to make progress. Most importantly though it is a long season and Ben is learning all the time. Take last Fridays match against Leicester for example. Ben had already been beaten twice by Tom Perry, and looked short of speed, then had to line up against Perry in a "must win " heat 9 after Adam Ellis fell and was excluded. It seems that in between races Dave Watt had worked a bit of magic on Bens set-up and given him a bit of advice, then Ben came out with far more speed than before and beat Perry by half the length of the straight. So that is the point. In a single meeting Ben learned something from a senior rider and took a small step forward. Multiply that by the help and advice he will get over the course of a season and he will be a better rider, as will a number of the other draft riders. Perhaps he has to make up his mind whether he wants to be speedway rider or a cagefighter. This is from his twitter page so is no secret :-

I've just noticed Adam Ellis' winning time in heat 7. Joint second fastest time of the night, faster than any of Iverson's wins, equalled only by PK and bettered only by Kenny Bear. Not bad for a rider who only turned 18 in March, and in his second season of speedway ! Now, what was it that people were saying about draft riders being out of their depth ?

.......or most of last year. His average never increased at all last year. This year he said on his website he had the best equipment he had ever had and that it was all up to him now. Well, we have hardly seen a single impressive ride from him this year. He will probably swap places with Bech once the first set of averages come out but the problem there is that although Bech will do a reasonable job as third heatleader, Lewis, on present form will not be beating second strings in the way that Mikkel is at the moment.. Can't see him lasting at this rate.

It has never been denied that the primary reason was to save money. Massive losses were made by some clubs last year, Peterborough dropped out of the EL altogether, so it was clear that if top league racing was to continue in this country we couldn't just rumble on in the same old way. No hopers? Depends what you mean by that. Agreed the majority won't graduate to become GP riders, but almost without exception the draft riders say they are learning a lot from the heatleaders in their EL teams. The knowledge they are gaining from the top riders and the experience of competing in the top league is something that they will take back to their PL and NL clubs and in turn that will have a drip down effect in starting to raise standards in those leagues.

Are you dyslexic or something ? The figure he actually mentioned was 595 cc. Even when I practically led you to it you still manage to come up with "598cc or something" . The whole point is to illustrate the way you constantly fail to read posts properly then shoot from the hip with all kinds of inaccurate information. The age of 21 is the age you have to be to apply for a licence to drive a machine up to that capacity on the road. It doesn't support your argument that the law of the land doesn't apply to speedway or other sports. If you were riding a machine of that capacity in a road trial or rally on public roads you would still need a licence. The fact that it was a sporting event does not give exemption from legal requirements. However, the context of your post was about possible violence or assaults on the track . What you said was:- But i guess you just have to wonder about the incident last night and if a rider had have kicked Lambert when he was on the track that could well have caused a major incident.You can't compare speedway with driving on the roads,because if that incident last night had happened on a street then someone might....should have ended up in prison.In speedway or in many other sports the law of the land doesn't apply The "incident last night" you are referring to was clearly the Richrd Hall / Josh Auty affair and you talk about if it happened in the street someone would have ended up in prison. The fact of the matter is that the law of the land does apply to such an incident on the sports field /arena but like anywhere else it depends on someone reporting it to the police and them then having enough evidence to prosecute. In the real world these relatively minor incidents don't usually get reported (and I presume Auty is not reporting it) so it will go no further but there have been criminal and civil prosecutions in the past as a result of assaults between sporting competitors. That is the point being made, and that is the point you are wrong about. Auty could, if he was so minded, and if he was hurt and if there was sufficient evidence press charges. However, all the waffle you are bringing up is not relevant to the matter under discussion, which is whether Lambert was justified in his strop by saying he won't ride for team GB because the "authorities"(as he calls them") won't waive the rules for him.

I am simply highlighting your inability to read and/or digest facts. First you accuse me of saying you have to be 21 to ride a 500cc machine, then you say it wasn't me it was SCB, but he didn't say anything about a 500cc machine. You are the one specifically mentioning a 500cc machine but now, it seems you can't tell us where he said it. Take a long look at Bwitchers previous post and take a long look at some of the things you have posted. if you want to post some accurate information we can move forward but when you shoot from the hip with inaccurate comments, not to mention comments that undermine the points you are attempting to make, as Bwitcher says, we can't take the discussion any further on a sensible level. I think everyone can see whats going on except you.

No, he didn't say that. Have another go.

Really ? Can you point out where I said that ? If you can't show us all where I said that (and I know you can't because I never said it ) then once again we can all see that dear old Iris, when short of facts resorts to making them up

Don't know which land is being referred to, whether it be Germany, Irisworld or somewhere else, but the law of the land applies to all sport in the UK. Whether victims of assault on the sports field choose to press charges is a different matter but the law applies. Yet another attempt to get out of the hole results in it getting deeper.

The result does appear on the BSPA website so we can take it to be an "official" fixture. However, the team declarations have nothing to do with the date they appear on the website. It is the "issued" date that is relevant. The GSA's and team declarations/re-declarations are supposed to take place "immediately" which in plain language would mean on the date of issue, not before, not after. The Poole Lakeside Challenge match was on the 26th March. The BSPA team Declaration No2, issued that very same day had Holder as Poole's No 1, yet Darcy rode. What a mess ! Ultimately I suppose it comes down to the usual problem of ambiguity of what the rules really mean and/or how they are applied. So we can probably say that having given the topic a good airing three things come out of it:- 1 The intention of the rules is probably to allow for Poole to have a guest in this sort of situation and (not for the first time) the confusion arises from the whole way the GSA's and team declarations are issued and the general lack of clarity. reasonable enough then that Poole get a guest, I would say. 2. Yet again we have seen the usual suspects screaming "anti-Poole , anti- Poole, ya-boo, anti Poole" when members of a discussion forum try to discuss the application of the rules concerning an issue that happens to involve Poole. Last year there was a similar sort of discussion when there was talk of Adam Ellis being drafted in to Lakeside as a reserve. nobody started screaming anti-Lakeside. Speedway rules are the sort of thing reasonable speedway fans are entitled to discuss on a speedway discussion forum. One or two really need to question whether this sort of forum is the right place for them. 3. The one thing that is clear is that there never was a case for Holder to come in as a direct guest for Ward , without a re-declaration, and the fact that Muddlo went bleating off to the press about trying to get Holder in shows how that mans mind works. Does all that sound about right to everyone ? Don't blame you, but even with Cook in the side the Pirates should prevail over the Budgies.

The rules are clear enough:- 16.5.3 No facility is permitted to replace a Rider, who although included in a Re-declaration has not made an appearance for that Team since being re-declared. The MC have the power to over-ride the rule but if they do that for Poole why not do it for everybody else and if they do it for everybody what's the point of having rule in the first place ? What happened in a challenge match is neither here nor there. The rules apply to league matches.

Presumably the "we " you are referring to means Germany . I will spell it out as succinctly as I can :- Speedway Star has pointed out that Germany is the exception in allowing 14 year olds to compete on 500cc machines. The fact that it is an exception means most other countries don't allow riders to compete on %00cc machines that young. Are you with me so far ? Therefore we can see that in not allowing 14 year olds to compete with seniors the BSPA are in line with most other countries . Agreed ? Now, if you bother to read the article in SS, (which you clearly haven't) you will see that even Lambert himself does not say in terms that the rule is wrong per se. He doesn't even say there should be some sort of competency test as you claim . What he actually says is:-"The reason I'm racing in Germany is because they wouldn't let me race over here at a young age. I was ready to take the step up and they wouldn't let me race". Note the highlighted part. . He wants the rule waived especially for him. Even up to this point one can see his point of view. If he thinks riding in Germany helps his career, fair enough, but the then the tantrum comes. Because the BSPA won't break the rule that applies to most other riders in most other speedway countries they must be punished by Master Lambert, who says he will not ride for Team GB. ""I wouldn't do it. " he asserts " There is such a sour taste in my mouth I wouldn't put myself out to do it" ( not that he has even been asked to ride for team GB at the moment ) If any rider declines to ride for Team GB because they lose money and don't get paid on time , (as some have ) most fans could at least have sympathy with that position. Riders have to consider their financial situation, but when this schoolboy stamps his feet and says he won't ride for his national team because the BSPA won't waive a rule that is pretty standard practice in most countries then that is in the opinion of many, both childish and churlish. That is the point. Exactly. The other night we saw one of the best riders in the world, Darcy ward, wiped out and rendered unconscious, in a racing accident. Sadly we have seen Ricky Ashworth a competent rider very seriously hurt in a racing accident. Last year we saw Peter Karlsson badly hurt at Lamberts home track. We don't like to admit it but the plain fact is that MOTOR RACING IS DAGEROUS in all its forms, and if we were to swap Darcy, Ricky or PK for Lambert there would be all kind of complaints against the BSPA. The difference is that those three are deemed to be old enough to join the army, get married, have driving licence, and generally make their own decisions in life, which with the best will in the world 14 year old schoolchildren need to be protected from. Of course kids should have access to sport and some do get hurt but you have to have controls. I agree , the BSPA have got this one right. I think all of us except Iris agree on that.

That isn't the issue. If Lambert had taken your line and said something like " I don't want to ride in the British u/21 's because I am looking for a higher standard of competition" I doubt whether anyone would seriously complain. But that's not the reason he gives. He is throwing a strop because there is a BSPA rule that riders under the age of 15 are not allowed to race 500cc machines, and he thought the rule should be waived especially for him. It no different to claiming that he should be allowed to hold a driving licence under the age of 16 because he thinks he is a good driver/rider. Speedway Star are as much to blame for even giving him time of day but it doesn't alter the fact that it was a very ill-advised comment to make and shows neither him nor his parents in a very good light,

I wasn't going to comment but I think that post more or less sums up what allot of fans were thinking on Friday night. More particularly it touches on an issue that has been rumbling on for over a year now, concerning the track. Some years ago Jon Cook said in his programme notes that what the riders wanted most of all was a smooth consistent surface to race on, and since then I have noticed that if the surface was good the racing was invariably good almost irrespective of how much dirt there was on the track and despite what some on here say the racing was raised to a pretty decent level under the present promotion. IMO the downward slide started towards the end of 2012 when the track was starting to break up and develop ruts at times towards the end of meetings. This was noticeable at the Rico Memorial for example. Then at the start of 2013 Dave Watt broke his wrist when he hit a rut. so much for a smooth consistent surface. Thoughout last year we were constantly getting sub-standard tracks although occasionally , out of blue, a good track would be produced and we saw good racing, but it still went back to the poor surface. I remember one week when Piotr Swiderski refused to go out in heat 15 because the track was in his opinion dangerous. Piotr is not short of either bottle or commitment so when a rider of that calibre won't come out something is wrong. On the other hand, when Wolves came down last year, the track was literally under water at 5-30 but the track staff not only got the meeting on but they provided a pretty decent racing surface so one wonders what is going on. As Claret 73 said the previous week the racing was, in the main pretty good so what suddenly went wrong on Friday ? Despite what people say I don't think it was lack of shale. I did hear that fresh shale had been put down on Friday. I don't know if that's true but there certainly was dirt on the track because the trick is to look at the kick-boards on the bends, and there was certainly dirt piled up against them which the track staff were dragging back at various pints in the meeting . There was certainly water on the track because I noticed before the start there was quite a muddy patch on the approach to turn 3 although, as it turned out this got churned in pretty quickly. Also, looking at the way Adam Ellis reared up and fell off in his first crash , I can't see how that would happen if there was no grip on the track. But whatever it was the track certainly wasn't good. The irony is that there was a pretty good crowd there and if we get many repeats of Friday's fiasco those numbers may well diminish rapidly. And yes Claret 73 is right about Rich Lawson. Improved beyond recognition from the 3-point reserve that joined the club last year. Good for him.

Fair enough. Not the first time Speedway Star have over-hyped something e.g Briggo's comments on dirt deflectors. As others have said, let's hope Lambert learns to keep his mouth shut and do his talking on the track in future. As I said before, according to Speedway Star Germany are an exception to the norm in letting riders that young compete on 500cc machines.

The wrong context ? Come on, your comment was "the whole thing reeks of jealousy", not just one or two posters on this thread. If you are well aware that there are restraints on 14-year olds and you knew Lambert was challenging those restrictions, why not say so in your post instead of talking about the "whole thing reeking of jealousy"? Not one single poster has knocked him on the grounds of ability, The OP was about him mouthing off in the press bout not riding for his country (which he hasn't been picked for anyway) because he had to follow the same rules as youngsters in most other countries. You are entitled to your opinion but don't start falling back on the "whole thing reeks of jealousy " argument when clearly that is not what people are saying at all.

Ah , so we are down to the "everyone's jealous of poor little ol' Kings Lynn argument". What rubbish. Even Lambert himself doesn't cite that as a reason.. Its pretty clear that 90% of those posting on here either haven't read the article of haven't read it properly so let's be clear on exactly what he is complaining about. Speedway Star paraphrases his complaint as follows :_ "Lambert feels the fact that he was unable to compete on a 500cc machine in his homeland and then only in the National League has not helped his progress" and then quotes him as saying "The reason I'm racing in Germany is because they wouldn't let me race here at a young age" So we so the issue is that Lambert was not allowed to compete in this country on a 500cc machine at the age of 14. GRW23 wants us to believe that it its jealousy but actually its the rules. Not only the rules in this country but the rules in most speedway nations. In fact as SS points out Germany are "very much the exception rather than the norm when it comes to letting 14 year olds race as seniors." SS also points out that "The Aussies won't let their juniors ride on a 500cc machine until they are 16 " ie a year later than the BSPA do, but I can't see that many of them have been held back by it. So there you have it. Despite Lambert trying to tell us that it is just the BSPA and despite GRW 123 making a fool of himself by claiming it is jealousy against Kings Lynn the British rules on not allowing 14 year olds to race on 500cc machines is pretty much in line , it seems, with the rest of the speedway world except Germany. The World Champions of 2012 and 2013 had to follow the rules, as did Darcy Ward who is a very likely World Champion in waiting. I don't remember them going crying to the press about it and I don't remember them refusing to ride for their country because of it. But apparently that's not good enough for young Master Lambert who thinks the rules shouldn't apply to him. There is another aspect to all this, as Speedway Star points out that some will concerned about ""exposing 14 year-olds to the inherent risks that come with riding a 500 cc bike with no brakes" In all honesty does anybody think it is a good idea to have 14 years olds , barely out of puberty, still at school still going through serious growing spurts, to race a 500cc bike against seniors or should we have a rule that says " You can't race a 500cc machine until you are 15 unless your name is Robert Lambert", which seems to be what he is moaning about. Certainly if the BSPA's rules are wrong about not allowing 14 year olds on 500cc bikes than a lot of other speedway nations are wrong as well.

Read the post properly Sid. The point being made is that Tai is the role model for young riders to follow. Focussed on the job, doesn't go washing dirty linen in public. Never heard him whingeing in the press.