E I Addio

http://www.lakesidehammers.co/content/?p=6108 Well done especially to former West Ham and Sunderland rider George Barclay and his wife Linda who always do a fantastic job on behalf of the Ben Fund and have been helping riders for years in many different ways.. Unsung heroes like these working quietly in the background are the real life-blood of speedway and we should all be grateful to them. Well done guys.

That's a good post. If I remember correctly Freddie Lindgren wasn't too hot on the Monmore track when he first arrived but he decided that by being persistent and learning to master it would make him a better rider, and boy didn't it just ! That's the thing with speedway , it is so much a confidence sport, it takes a lot of determination to get on and rider what ever is in front of you.

Instead of blurting out tosh explain how they do have a big home advantage. Explain how riders like Jurica Pavlic and Tomasz Jedrjak scored maximums the first time they ever saw the place if Lakeside is that difficult. Those tracks do take a particular type of skill, and Lakeside is said to be the most physically demanding EL track so those riders who don't use their head or are not fully fit will get caught out, but that's what racing is about. Peter Karlsson was coming down and reeling off big scores long before Lakeside was his home track. Riders like Lindgren, Woffinden, NKI, Holder, etc can hit big scores on all tracks.

I don't quite follow what you are saying, but that's probably me being a bit obtuse. However what I was doing was adopting UK Martins point (which is flawed) and taking his argument that to win at Lakeside you need as many guests as possible who are track specialists, to its logical conclusion. I was pointing out that Swindon won with there regular team, not a team packed out with track specialist guests. In other words quality riders are quality riders, not track specialists. When clubs build their teams at the start of the season they know which tracks they have to visit, so if they pick riders who can't ride a particular track then that's down to the team they pick, not the track. Sour grapes for people to blame the track when their team lose. I spoke to Adam Shields about this a few years ago, and his response was that it was just as hard for him to go to places like Swindon and Coventry and to gate first and stay in front as it was for their riders to come to Lakeside and do the same. Every track has a home advantage because the home riders are able to work on their set ups every week instead of having to work them out on a track walk once or twice a season. The home team also has the advantage of having the track prepared as they want it and that is often a very significant factor, rather like a cricket team preparing the wicket to suit the home side. Good riders are good riders though, wherever they ride.

Orion whose post you were criticising and telling him to get life, never said what Lee did was unforgivable, he simply said it was against the law and we can't pick and choose which laws we obey and which we ignore. Maybe you think it is ok for people to ignore laws they don't like but I don't think it's reasonable to tell someone to get a life because they say they law should be obeyed. Go back and read your post again and reflect on how stupid you made yourself look.

Very strange then that the only team to win at Lakeside this year were Swindon who didn't rely on guests. On the basis of your logic Perry Barr must also be a trick track because the only team to go there and win this year were Swindon. On the other hand, on the basis of your reasoning Belle Vue must be a fantastically neutral track because plenty of teams go there and win.

With respect, Bwitcher, you are not quoting him properly. He said "An increasing number of this type of fan ON HERE Undoubtedly a lot of dyed in the wool fans have left the sport in recent years but they do not generally post on here. The ones Tsunami is referring to are those who can't accept times change, can't accept that the old days have gone, can't accept that the loss of second halves and that the one day off world final is gone for good or that the play-offs are here to stay, and as you yourself have correctly pointed out on many occasions, bleat on about rule changes which only exist in their head because they don't understand what the rule book actually says. I am not defending the many shortcomings of those who run the sport but I have no time for the mischief makers either, who claim to care about the sport from behind their keyboards but really only want to do it harm. Many of the things that people bleat about on here are far removed from the real issues that plague the sport. Trees post immediately above this one makes a point worth thinking about though.

Nothing wrong with orion's comment. If you don't like people making a point that differs from your own there not much point in you being on a discussion forum. Read orion's comment again and tell us what's wrong with it as a discussion point, instead of this yawn, yawn rubbish you post because you can't manage to think of a sensible reply. Maybe the Clown is right about you.

That's not correct. Cannabis contains many of the same chemical nasties that are found in tobacco, so anyone who smokes weed probably doesn't even know the risks of smoking tobacco let alone the risks of smoking weed. I remember George Harrison saying he quit smoking weed when he put some under a microscope and realised what muck he was passing into his brain. Whether it is safer than alcohol is irrelevant. If you argue the case that alcohol is dangerous that doesn't somehow make cannabis safe.

Add to that Gary Middleton getting in the papers for waving a gun around in the pits.Just the sort of "characters" speedway needs.

Pinchin hasn't thought that one through, just as he hasn't thought most of his half-baked ides through, and relies on sweeping generalisations that show an ignorance of the sport that really is a disgrace for someone that purports to be a professional motorcycle journalist. For instance Pinchin, who has never actually worked on a speedway track in his life tells us that track prep is left to the last minute. What a complete idiot. If he were to turn up at Monmore , Kings Lynn, Arlington, Lakeside and many others 8 hours before start time he would find track curators like Doc Bridgett, Gerald Richter, Bob Dugard, Buster Chapman and others were well under way already. Pinchin then compounds his ignorance of the sport by saying put more dirt down. If you put more dirt down nothing will happen until you put some water with it. The skill is getting the right mix of dirt and water, but that's where the weather comes in . if there is a risk of rain the track has to be prepared differently or if there is an unexpected downpour or if expected rain passes you by it can mess up the plans for track prep. Really Pinchin ought to speak to the people who do the job before making sweeping generalisations as if he is an expert himself Pinchin also talks about handing the promotion to a marketing company as if he is the only one that has thought of the idea but unfortunately this professional journalist has made no enquiries as to what it would cost and whether it would be cost effective and what if any effect it would have on admission charges. It is easy the throw ideas with looking at the economics of it. If he could come up with some figures it could be an interesting point but unless and until he looks at the cost it is a non point. He makes other points that are nothing new and have all been churned out on this forum from time to time by the ordinary fans, some ideas are good, some not so good, but nothing new and more importantly nothing costed. The more pressing issue is what sort of a league we build next year that stops promotions loosing vast sums of money and controls costs, providing a regular league programme (not like the stop-start EL we had this year) while still providing a decent standard of racing. If that can be worked out the sport will be in a better state than it will be by people like Pinchin getting upset because the music is not to his taste or the Burger Bar that is not under the control of the promoters is rubbish.

That is the root of the problem. When a certain rule is enforced/applied inconsistently it leads to the perception that the rule is at fault, rather than those who did or did not enforce it correctly.

In the last few days the Ferrari F1 team has been fined for a breach of the rules, not for the first time. The West Indies Cricket team was fined earlier this year for a slow over rate against Pakistan, something that happened habitually in cricket these days as does attempted ball tampering. Is boxing a serious sport ? It sometimes (including now) has up to 5 different people claiming to be world champion at a given weight. I don't think any of those sports are not taken seriously.

Its a bit of a circular problem really. Its difficult for a promoter to know how open to be. For example, it seems very bad PR to me for absolutely no information to be given on any punishment or lack of it regarding Pooles cancellation of the Lakeside match. On the other hand their are a number of posters who seem to think they have a God-given right to know every detail of a promoters business. As Bwitcher says, the trick is how to handle it properly.

While I cannot disagree with you on that I also agree with Local Boys's post that there are also a lot of vitriolic posts based half truths, untruths and figments of imagination. It never ceases to amaze me that some quite serious flaws in the running of the sport get minimal comments on here while one might also find a thread based on tittle tattle can run for pages. Of course those running the sport could do a lot more to confirm or deny certain important items ( I am not talking about every insidious piece of gossip that crops up), but even if they did there would still be those who howl disbelief because it suits their purpose.

Who said I don't have an opinion ? I have expressed my opinion if you bother to read it. The opinion expressed is firstly that Michael Lee has paid his debt to society, all £600 of it so I don't want to comment further on him. He has paid his fine, starts again with a clean sheet so there is no point in raking over the coals as far as he is concerned, although he will be an idiot if he goes there again. Secondly, if I am choosing between NHS scientists who say too much of the stuff can send you do-lally and you may finish up in the loony bin, as opposed to the empirical knowledge of yourself and mrlincolncity , based on nothing more than knowing a few mates then I tend to side with the experts. In fact reading mrlincolncity's posts I am not altogether sure that the "rubbish" as he calls it hasn't cost him a few marbles already. Bottom line is that if people want to indulge in the stuff, let them as long as they don't expect the taxpayer to pick up the bill, given there is clear evidence of a link between the carcinogens in spliff's and cancer, amongst other things.

I thought something like that old chestnut would come out. Obviously you can take it to any lengths you like- dangerous sports, smokers, people who eat too much etc, so the question is where do we draw the line. We live in a democracy and the broad will of the people is to make the taking of recreational cannabis illegal, whereas dangerous sports etc are not illegal. I don't see why I should pay for the ailments of someone who by their own choice indulges in the taking of illegal substances likely to cause them harm. Of course the reality is, that in a civilised society no hospital is going to turn away people who are hurt by doing illegal things, whether it be drugs, fights or drunk driving. However the main point being made is that despite those on here who tell us that smoking a bit of pot is harmless the NHS says different. I can't remember what the NHS spends on treating people with drug-related illnesses but it runs into millions and I would rather see that money spent on legitimate illnesses.

Nothing to do with politics. Two wrongs don't make a right. If the NHS is being ripped off in other ways in doesn't justify more waste on people who by their own free will suffer an illness caused by an illegal habit. I felt the same way under the previous governments as well.

http://www.nhs.uk/Li...bisdangers.aspx Michael Lee has paid his debt to society so I don't want to comment on him in particular but it does seem that taking cannabis is not the harmless fun that some on here try to tell us it is, although of course some will always tell us the NHS have got it wrong and they themselves know best.. If some peoples lives are so dull that the only way they think they can relax or get a bit of pleasure is to smoke a bit of weed at home fair enough but I do object to them turning up at hospital with drug related illnesses and expecting the tax-payer to fund it from the over-stretched NHS budget.

That is a good point. Cook, Worrall, and Barker are not even close to the top 20 averages in this country and people are telling them (well Worrall and Cook anyway) that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and are the future of British Speedway. Cook, at least seems to believe it judging by the way he threw his toys out of the pram on being dropped. This is part of the problem with British Speedway. Riders are not encouraged to develop a hunger for success. As Sam Ermolenko said, they get too used to home comforts instead of standing on there own two feet. Doubling up in the PL is not the answer. Barker said two years ago that sometimes you have to take a step back before you can take two steps forward, but after two years doubling up how much further forward is he ? The harsh truth is that in modern speedway continental experience seems to be crucial and only those who take serious steps to gain extensive experience abroad will succeed on the world stage. Lewis Bridger has this season taken basic steps to get on the first rung of the ladder in Poland and Denmark, and already it is starting to show in his riding. Admittedly he still has a long way to go before he becomes genuine world class but at least he has got himself on first step of the right road. However much talent the others may or may not have, doubling up in the PL is unlikely to turn them into genuine candidates for Team GB. Whoever is GB team manager in future should make it clear that preference will be given to those with good continental experience. If riders want to earn a comfortable living doubling up in PL racing I wouldn't blame them or criticise them but if they have ambitions to ride for their country at the top level then there has to be some commitment on their part.

Auty would need more devil in the first bend because Bridger would already a bike length in front. The first essential for a rider to reach international standard is the ability to gate, and that's something even Auty himself admits he can't do. LBR is a reasonable sometimes good gater, having beaten riders like Kasprak from the gate this year. As usual you lurch into your exaggerations but if you bother to read to previous posts properly you will see that nobody is claiming that LBR is a ,world beater. In fact he is not even riding as a heat leader at the moment, but nor is Kennet for that matter. What we are saying is that while Auty is basically a PL rider in d/u role LBR has not needed to drop down to PL and is good enough to get team places in Poland and Denmark where they wouldn't even think about Auty. LBR still has a long way to go and it remains to be seen whether he will get to be a top rider, even by GB standards but he has got a different attitude this year, working harder on fitness, getting top class machinery, and that is paying off with consistency and heat 15 selections. Still not genuine Team GB standard perhaps (but who is except Bomber and Tai?) but still comes out ahead of Auty on every measurable assessment

Agreed, but the point being made was that although the tac ride is mathematically fairer than the tac sub, it is still perceived as being unfairer because a team appear to make up 7 points (on what would otherwise be a 5-1) rather than 4 points. More important though is the present system of league points which is a far more effective way of maintain interest and , to my mid at least, makes the tac ride/tac sub redundant. The whole t/r t/s thing is an unnecessary complication to what should be a simple sport to follow.

I agree. I accept that mathematically the tactical substitute rule can be shown to be more unfair, but to the average punter who doesn't stand at the trackside with a calculator the perception of a team getting an 8-1 instead of a 5-1 is unfair. I think the point that most people are missing is that the point of the old tac sub rule and also the tac ride in its early days was to maintain interest in a meeting when one team was gaining a big lead. However in those days it was basically a straight win or lose but now we have interest created by a team needing to win by 6 or more to get 3 league points and a team who loses by 6 still get something out of it. This means that effectively a team have to get 13 points ahead (allowing for t/r's) to be sure of getting all three point. With the present system of league points(which I am in favour of, surely the time has come to dump the tac ride/tac sub for once and for all.

Have you ever seen his home tracks in Denmark and Poland ? If not why are you calling them trick tracks ? The fact is that Lewis has got out and got himself jobs in Denmark and Poland so at least it shows he has the ambition. You don't keep a job in Poland in particular, at any level unless you are a good performer home and away. Lewis has been around a long time but people forget he is still only 23. Unlike Worrall and Cooke he his holding down team places on the continent rather than doubling up in the PL. He is I believe younger than Craig Cooke and probably the best under 25 British rider after Tai Woffinden. If the policy is going to be to build for the future and give young riders experience then he has a good claim to a place. Very few speedway riders have peaked by the age of 23 and there is no reason to believe Lewis will not get better.

Getting back to the point of the thread I used to go to grasstracks back in the day when motorcycling was the major part of my life, and yes. it is a good day out IMO but speedway is a different ball game with its teams, points and leagues. Its not a question of one being better than the other they are just different and each have their own attractive qualities. The point that I think needs to be made is that grass-track, like speedway, is struggling, and they are not the only outdoor spectator sports in that situation. That indicates to me that some of speedways problems (and I am not saying all) are outside the control of the BSPA and are indicative of a changing society. So in answer to the point of the thread, yes, grass-track is goes value for money for those who enjoy it, but reducing speedways admission to £10 or any of those puerile suggestions we keep getting on threads here is not going to transform speedway. The problems are much deeper than that and there is no easy answer.