E I Addio

Yes but illogical decisions and turning on riders on the straights are not going to win world championships. I can understand that certain irresponsible looneys take the stuff in any walk of life but does it actually enhance a riders ability on the track ? I would have thought not.

Or, as Andreas Jonsson laconically put it “ He’s a bit wild “. Quite

On a slightly different point , is there any evidence that drugs actually enhance a riders performance on a bike ? I get it with athletes that use the stuff to build muscles during training, but what would it actually do for a rider in a race? The point is Speedway is a funny sport and a lot of it is mind games. If one rider does something or makes some modification to his bike others will copy even though it makes no difference, they just convince themselves it does.

Don’t these inspections have to be carried out at ACU Headquarters or somewhere designated by the ACU now ? I remember about 10/12 years ago at a televised meeting at Poole a visiting rider ( I think he was from Peterborough, but not certain) , was accused of having an over size carburettor but instead of testing in the pits the carb had to be sent to the ACU for checking. I seem to remember no fault was found.

How does that work ? If the capacity is the bore x stroke the capacity is always going to be the same for a given piston diameter surely ? is an engine is a short stroke engine the bore( and therefore the piston diameter ) must be bigger. If it is a long stroke engine to cylinder bore will be narrower and a short stroke piston wouldn’t fit. Does anybody ride long stroke engines anymore ? I thought they went out with the J.A.Ps in the sixties / early seventies.

Hi Sid, Sorry I overlooked the question at the end of your post. I don’t know what others think , but yes I certainly think in my case I became biased towards those riders I was a fan of. I think most of us are like it. I think the riders we become fans of when we are young are always the best because we don’t know any better. Other riders come along and somehow they never seem quite as good as the ones we grew up watching, but to a new generation coming along they know as much about Briggs and Fundin as we knew about Tommy Price or Bluey Wilkinson, so they think perhaps Bruce Penhall or Hans Neilson were the greatest , and so it goes on. But I think as we get older and have these sort of discussions on here or with other fans we mellow a bit and learn to acknowledge each other’s opinions, and that to me makes me feel,privileged to have seen over the years some fantastic riders, and that really is what it’s all about.

I think you have to look at the level of opposition as well. For example I would have rated Rocky Marciano as the greatest Heavyweight boxer ever on the basis of his career record of 49 , fights, 49 wins and 43 of them by KO before retiring as undefeated World Champion, but looking at some reports the other day it seems that most boxing writers and magazines put him around the lower end of the top 10:greatest ever, on the basis his era didn’t have many really hard punchers that other eras had and some that he did fight were past their prime at the time. Not his fault of course , because you can only beat what’s in front of you but he never had to fight, for example , Ali , Frazier, or Foreman in their prime. That’s the view of the experts, I stress, so don’t jump on me those who disagree. Now , let’s convert that to speedway. Jason Crump had the misfortune to be around at the time of a truly great rider- Rickardson- at his prime. If Rickardson had not been there Crump would likely have had six World titles and we would be ranking him alongside the absolute all time cream of riders. There is no doubt in my mind that there have been very few riders in the history of the sport with Crumps talent but he just happened to be around at the time of Rickardson. The same might be said about Nordin, and arguably even Harrfeldt , but they both happened to have a relatively short time at the top, and look who they were up against, three of the true greats- Fundin , Briggs and Knutson, also to a lesser extent Ronnie Moore who was injured for part of the time. Now we come to the Big Five. Although it could be reasonably argued that in many ways the average level of competition was not as professional as it is now each of the the Big Five still had to beat four of the other true greats. Imagine a one off world Final and you find yourself facing all four of the others at some stage ! What if, Fundin had never ridden speedway , how many titles would Briggs have won ? What if Ronnie more had not spent two years car racing and six years in premature retirement before returning still as a world class rider ?What if Peter Craven had not lost his life in that terrible crash in Edinburgh? What if Knutson, five or six years younger than the others had not retired still a young man ? Any of them might well have the best record ever if not for the great what ifs. I know this will be controversial but I think Knutson , only a year or so younger than Mauger, could well have had some of Maugers titles, and perhaps we would be regarded far more highly than he is, because, quite honestly , who did Mauger face who had the year in year out conststency of the Big Five,. If the “ What ifs” teach us one thing it it is don’t compare. They were all great. Just be grateful that we had the chance to see some of these wonderful riders in a wonderful era before the sport nose dived into its present decline.

I used to quite like individual meetings Sid, but in the days before it was regularly televised. In those days you might only get to see the top riders once or twice a year so it was something special to see them. Now that they are on TV every few weeks it’s not quite the same. I used to like the qualifying rounds for the old one day world final so you could support your home riders to see how far they got.

I don’t disagree with either of those posts, and I have always been able to go to a meeting as a neutral and thoroughly enjoy it, but there is no denying that the tribal element of supporting your own team and then favourite riders within the team adds extra sparkle, to the meeting. Sooner or later I will probably find another meeting to go to but it is the team element, the team support that keeps the crowds coming back on the regular basis that the sport needs to survive, rather than casual attenders. And yes I agree the people you meet are a big part of it. It’s great when you turn up at a meeting, find yourself chatting to the bloke next to as if you’ve known him for years, but there seems to be less and less of that as crowds get thinner, but also because lethargy is like a disease and it spreads. I am not one of those that want to go back to the old days but the sport has lost some of its magic for me, not the racing, as I said but when it’s run in a way that makes feel the administrators couldn’t care less if fans turn up or not, it somehow takes the incentive away

Pretty much my feelings. Despite what the critics say, the sport itself - by which I mean the actual racing- at its best is fantastic at its worst is utterly boring but the key ingredient is having a team to support. You come back after the boring meetings because it’s your team and it’s in your blood and you support them whatever. It’s never been any different, and by and large the good meetings outnumber the bad . However , I feel I’ve had enough of the corruption and rule bending. Like you Marks, I havent been to a meeting since Lakeside finished. I thought I would but don’t feel motivated. It’s not so much that Lakeside closed, its the bitterness I still feel about the way the MC and in particular Rob Godfrey went about it, first of all accepting Lakesides proposed fixtures into the fixture list then, halfway through the season pulling Lakesides and Workingtons fixtures out of the list, costing their respective promotions thousands of pounds, all because Godfrey suddenly realised they were ahead of him on league points when his teams No1 rider was injured. All of them, but Godfrey especially , are contemptible and for me the happy face of speedway will always wear a sinister and corrupt mask. They are simply to thick to realise that those fans that go won’t be back. At least I saw the sport in its best years.

They’ll probably be lucky to get that many through the turnstiles. If the weather looks dodgy it will probably be a lot less. I can’t see many wanting to travel far for it.

Holta turned 48 I think , a week or so back

I think Noaksey was meaning who would pick up the losses the owners were incurring if they didn’t sell. I used to talk to the people who ran the cafe and they were saying most stock car meetings were badly attended except for a few big meetings each year which kept them afloat. I was looking some DVD’s the other day of meetings around 2009/10 and the Speedway crowds were still pretty decent at that time. 2009 was the year Jonas Davidson went through the whole season without a single last place or e.f. and Kauko Neminen was going up a gear and beaten some big names. Things like that keep the crowd support up. Even in 2016 the crowds weren’t bad . With sponsorship I think the club were breaking even in 2018 until Rob Godfrey , then vice chairman of the BSPA pulled the plug on Friday meetings that had already been put in the fixture list months before . Coupled with that the BSPA wouldn’t Lakeside run some meetings at Arena and some at Rye House, it had to be one or the other , and that’s what ruined the crowds. So a decent promoter , Stuart Douglas , and a load more fans lost to to the sport, thanks to the intransigence of Godfrey, and Bluster Chapman.

That’s what speedway is all about really. Watching it on the telly is never quite the same.

Yes , I miss the people as well. I can’t explain what it was but there was a sort of cameraderie among the fans that I never experienced at Hackney for example. There was just something among the fans that seemed to gel. I though Coventry had a nice feel to as well and I miss going there.

I am not sure if there actually was a compulsory purchase order . There was certainly talk of planning permision but one of the problems was pollution on other parts of the land. The main problem with the speedway track was that the stock cars were not bringing in money. They depended on a few big meetings but the smaller ones were said to be poorly supported. Once Chick Woodruffe died the family, who weren’t really enthusiasts, only saw it as a business and once the income started to dry up they just wanted to sell. The place is badly run down now , after two years of not being used and I think it would cost too much money to re open especially with the state the sport is now in.

Your avtar is one of Hull Vikings. Slavery was an important part of the Norse economy I those times. Similarly, are we going to ban Poole Pirates because the Barbary Pirates were slave traders ? How far are these analogies going to go ?These are Speedway teams for goodness sake not political rallies. People’s political , religious or racial outlooks are not governed by which speedway team they support.

No not al all narky , just having a bit of forum fun trying to get you to back up your claims, instead of twisting everything that is said. For example I asked whether you n thought Coventry manipulated the rules and you replied that they didnt break them which obviously not the same thing as manipulating them. Anyway Cityrebel who I like and Phillip Rising are saying its all in the past now so we wont bore them any more and move on. Not important after 10 years

Read my words again. I said driving clubs out of business wasn’t going to be good for the sport , I didn’t say Ford was making all rules for the future of the sport rather than his own club. If you are going to quote someone quote them verbatim instead of your own interpretation of it . You do this all the time as a distraction when we get down to questions you dont want to answer,.

I’ve really enjoyed this thread. I did know a little about Arthur Forrest but I had no idea he was so good at such a young age, or that he retired so young. Anyone know why he retired ? Even though he appears to have already peaked when he retired I imagine he could have been a top dog and earned a decent living in the early years off the Provincial league.

It was in the sense that when Coventry were down at the bottom it would have given them more chance to make the plays offs with Pawlicki riding, instead of being in Poland. Do try to concentrate. I am putting forward the argument that it was not deliberate rule manipulation by Coventry, you now seem to be saying it was. To be clear, are saying Coventry manipulated the rules or not ?

You’ve done it again. “The bigger picture” is your expression.

I know where you are coming from Steve, but going back to the time Coventry signed Pawlicki they couldn’t possibly have know they were going to be in the play off final . It would have made more sense to keep Pawlicki in the team to be sure of making the playoffs rather than just about making the cut. The number 8 rule that allowed this to happen was outdated, as were other things that were really aimed at getting PL riders into the EL , not class acts like Pawlicki. The whole thing needed amending and updating IMO but because it involved the old enemies Poole and Coventry all the conspiracy stories and urban myths sprang up. Incidently I have a copy of the Speedway News dated April 1939 and even back then the editorial was saying that the important thing was to start the season with all teams on a level playing field. It seems that 70 years later the lesson still hadn’t been learned. Bottom line as far as I can see is that did the rules that allowed the Pawlicki situation arise need changing ? If the answer is yes, then the AGM was the appropriate time to do it.

The close season AGM is the time for amending rules.

They didn’t “manage “ to keep Pawlicki at reserve. Coventry didn’t manipulate the rule. Pawlicki was injured for one meeting and apparently needed in Poland , for matches not listed when he signed for Coventry. You must be about the only Coventry fan not moaning about Pawlicki being absent. I don’t think Coventry were manipulating anything, but the Pawlicki situation simply exposed a rule, in fact two rules that needed amending. Fans then started various conspiracy theories.