E I Addio

Most likely a choice between club asset Kim Nilsson and fans favourite Piotr Swidderski 6.22. PK would be good but money would be a problem. Can't see anyone paying him a heatleaders money while he is scoring like a second string and by all accounts he wants a heatleaders wage, so the sums probably won't tie up. Shame a great UK career fizzled out the way but I suspect he may well have ridden his last race in this country.

Difficult to disagree with that Sidney, except that Briggo could, also be on hell of a gater when the mood took him. One of my most outstanding early memories is when I saw Briggo win the last of his British Championships at West Ham. In a field that included Mauger, who was to go on to win the World title that year Briggo was completely dominant and not even Mauger could get near him off the gate. Briggo was absolutely stunning that night. When we talk about racers I wish I had been around to see the great Jack Parker. He contested the British Match Race Championshiip 21times and won, I think, 18 or 19 of them . Must have been some racer.

Same places that Jason Crump, Chris Holder, Darcy Ward, Troy Batchelor and Jason Doyle gained their international experience. Nobody gave them a free lunch or a FTDR place or an easy pass into the GP!s. They had to drag themselves up by they bootlaces.

h That is incorrect. What happened before and after has a lot to,do with it. There is a whole raft of case law on what constitutes consent. Stacks of it, but you are choosing to dismiss it in making that comment. If it was a simple case that both did or both didn't they would have been charged jointly but they faced separate charges even though they were tried together. The fact that they were separetely charged always allowed the possibility of separate verdicts. One of the reasons for separate charges was because in some area their evidence contradicted each other. We can argue the merits of the case until the cows come home but your argument is based on the premise that the Jury, the trial judge and the four appeal judges that looked at it were all in some way corrupt or incompetent . There is a possibility that Evans own legal team were. Incompetent and possibly his new legal team may get somewhere on that point, but the fact remains that on the evidence before the court Evans has been found guilty, and the jury did hear the entirety of the evidence, not just what has been summarised in the press. I don 't think many forum members have absolute blind faith in the legal system but there is no particular evidence at this stage that the total of 5 judges involved in the case were corrupt, yet for your opinion to stand they must all have been corrupt or incompetent. That surely is the point. All of us only really know what is on here. The jury had the advantage of stitting through the entire evidence for several days, and their decision was unanimous. One must give 12 people some credit for being reasonably intelligent even if individually some are not as sharp as others. That is why we have a jury system.

That absolutely hits the nail on the head. If you are only seeing riders twice a year quite often their reputation goes before them so they have this kudos about them before they even get to the tapes. Absolutely right about .he GP's . Familiarity breeds contempt and when you are seeing the real top stars every couple of weeks you tend to take them for granted . Add to that we get things like the SWC televised it takes the edge off the drama. I think heat 15 had had a big impact. It's very difficult to string 4or 5 good starts together. Quite often we see a rider with 10 orv11 points after 4 rides which would be very impressive on the old format but after 5 rides he still has 10 or 11 which is less impressive. FWIW I think there are plenty of riders today who are every bit as entertaining as in years gone by. I am struggling at the moment to think of more than one or two riders who compare with Peter Karlsson for example, one of my all time favourites. Few riders of any generation can compare to his ability to think a race out , and to be on the right part of the track at the right time.. Riders like Peter Collins and Briggo couldn't do that but they were totally different types of rider that had different skills and an all out full throttle style that PK doesn't have.different types of rider from different generations. They have to be appreciated for what they are. You can't. Really compare on to another.

Not much that can be said about McDonald. He was not found guilty so I don't have a particular opinion on his conduct. I certainly haven't described him as despicable, and come to that I don't think Charlie Webster, who the thread is about has said anything about him, so he is not really up for discussion. All I know about him is that he claims his career has been affected by the case but whether it's that or whether he is just a rubbish footballer I don' t know. Come to that , I don't really have an opinion on whether Evans should play again. That's purely a matter between him and the paying fans of whatever club might think about signing him. My only point really is that he cheated on his girl friend, he put his career on the line and he only has himself to,blame if it all blew up.

Everyone in the UK has not taken a vow of chastity BUT his own description of what he did was "an act of infidelity " towards his girlfriend so in Evans own terms there was an implied agreement of chastity and/or fidelity between him and his girlfriend, and by his own standards he cheated on her and he, again by his own standards would expect her show fidelity towards him. If all this had not blown up he would have kept quiet about so deception comes in as well , so that's where the scumbag bit comes in. Of course many of those condemning Evans now might have done the same thing but Evans was the one that got caught. So even before we get to the rape bit he is in many people's eyes, and according to his own definition a scumbag and a cheat. As to the rape itself it was not in the same class as laying in wait in a dark alley with a knife, but as others have pointed out his public stance has done him no favours. Like a lot of things in life it is not black and white but shares of grey. Bill Clinton got away with cheating on his wife several times. Public opinion is a fickle thing, but the bottom line is that Evans chose to be in the public eye and chose to play fast and loose with. a complete stranger,so only has himself to blame

He is free to pursue his career if he can find a club but you can't force the paying public to accept him. In a similar way disgraced MP's like Chris Huhne , Elliot Morely and Jeffrey Archer are free to stand as MP's again if they wish once their sentences are served but you can't force people to vote for them. As far as Hartlepool are concerned though I understand the local MP put his spoke in and opposed Evans being signed but don't see what it's got to do with him, so to that extent Evans has suffered from busybodies jumping on the bandwagon.

The exception that proves the rule. She stands out as the only dowdy spinster in stark contrast to most of the others who spend a fortune on image, including all kinds of plastic surgery to try to fight back the advancing years. Plus Susan Boyle would never have made it on her own merit without the right media packaging that came with Cowell and the X-factor. Generally speaking fickle public opinion demands looks ahead of talent.

As Orion has already pointed out its not the rape it's the way he went about it. Call it what you like, prudish, hypocritical, double standards , fair, unfair, or whatever, the bottom line is that ultimately the public pay his wages and they decide, however fsir or unfair that decision is, and anyone who serves the public needs to keep on the right side of public opinion. Even his companion , McDonald who was found not guilty is complaining that the trial has adversely afected his career. These people are happy to accept the accolades when public opinion puts them on a pedestal , they can't really complain when the public knock them down . Fair or unfair doesn't come into it. Evans himself said that playing professional football is a rare and exceptional privilege. If he doesn't keep his nose clean and keep out of trouble he only has himself to blame if he gets on the wrong side of public opinion. On the other side of the coin, I was walking through the underpass at South Kensington station a couple of years ago and I heard this woman busker singing with a really fantastic voice. She was far better than the dross on X-Factor but she wasn't very photogenic and public opinion says female singers have to look a bit sexy, so there she was busking while better looking worse singers earn a fortune. Not fair, just the way public opinion goes.

It's not the British justice system that's stopping him working its public opinion, which can be very fickle and inconsistent. Lots of people in the public eye have lost their careers because of some misdemeanour, be it serious or minor. On the other hand if it had been some pop singer doing exactly the same as Evans, he would probably have been soon forgiven. In one sense I can see why it can be argued that he has had a bad deal, but as you say he had behaved like a scumbag so I won't lose any sleep over him.

Sid, let me give you a quote from Ivan Mauger. He said several times that if there was no BarryBriggs there would be no Ivan Maugef. What he meant was that great riders learn from those that had gone before. Ivan said he spent years working out how to beat Briggo because he thought Briggs was the best there was and if he could work out how to beat him he would be best. Eventually Ivan did beat Barry (albeit when Briggo was slightly past his best) but no sooner did Ivan get his triple crown than along came Olsen, mimicked Mauger and moved on a stage. Olsens expertise went on to the other Danes, and so it went on. What I am saying is that good as Gundersen and Neilson were modern riders have learnt from them and upped it a stage. The Greg Hancock today is not the Hancock of 20 years ago. The bikes behave much differently today and Hacock is one that has moved with the times. When I talk about the also rans I was thinking of last season when Richard Lawson went to Poole and beat Darcy Ward twice. That doesn't make Darcy less of a rider it's just that in the moden sport even second strings like Rich Lawson have a great deal of knowledge and professionalism that years ago would have only been in the hands of people like Mauger and a few others but over the years there has been a trickle down effect. I am not knocking past riders . Briggo is IMO opinion the most exciting rider I ever saw, and Inonly saw him towards the end of his career so goodness knows what he was like at his peak, but it's a different game now and. I do think the likes of Gundersen and Neilson would probably have to work harder for their points.

I see the most unsuccessful professional football club in the land, Hartlepool have now said they don't want him there, so it probably means the end of his footballing career in this country. At the end of the day, if you are a public servant , in the broadest sense of the word , which Evans is (or was) you are subject to the whims of public opinion, rightly or wrongly, but I do find it a bit incongruous that footballers who have killed people through drunk driving are back playing without a whimper from the same public that object to Evans. Still, as the old saying goes there's know't so queer as folk.

That is so true. One of the reasons the EL appears to be weaker than it actually is, is that the top stars get beaten more often by each other. The other thing is that modern engines are so sensitive to getting the, set up dead right that the difference between the top men and the also rans is narrower than it used to be. If Gundersen etc were riding today they would still be very good but would have to work much harder to stay at the top.

I like to think that as well, but I wonder if physical characteristics come into it. With Briggo it was sheer physical strength that enabled him to grow the bike around but I am not sure he would cope with the technicalities of a lay-down any more than Gtreg Hancock would cope with a short stroke J.A.P throwing him all over the place. We have to appreciate them of their era, although thinking about it for this thread I kind of feel that Fundin's iron will would force him to the top in any era. Interesting topic though

A sleigh full of crates of Fosters for Darcy ?

I know I am being pedantic here , but rule 16 specifically states that if a team withdraws or is expelled from the league it's results will be void. Fair enough but it doesn't specifically state a riders scores will be removed from the calculation of their CMA's. So I suppose what we need to know is what happened to those riders who scored against Brum, do their scores count towards their CMA's or not ? I doubt if anyone would go to the bother of recalculating everyone's GSA's so everything including Danny's scores would remain , but they might have been recalculated. You see my point (I hope) that if Danny's scores for Brum are removed then so should everyones scores against Brum , but if everyone scoring against Brum are left as they are then so should Danny's. Is that about right or am I being obtuse ?

We have been over this's thousand times. The only people with the power to call off a fixture are the home promoter until the referee takes charge of a meeting, then the power rests with the ref. if you say otherwise please quote the rule or rules you say he should have stood up for, because nobody has been able to do so yet . Ford defied the BSPA but according to SS the matter was going before BSPA the following July and they did nothing. Belle Vue called off a match in similar circumstances, but they were fined £5000 for lying about the reason. As a foreign rider new to Britain his average is assessed differently. I belive it is Peter Oakes that works the average out based on continental performances.

You are obviously not aware of the problems surrounding Somerset. Be that as it may, why should Lakeside announce Kennets average when no othe club announces their riders average. If it was common place for clubs to give the riders average I could see the point.

Utter tosh. If Lakeside were the only team not announcing the riders average there might be some merit in what you say but the plain fact is that no team have announced there riders averages so why should Lakesides announcement of Kennet include his average ? As I said before all the teams riders and team building averages have yet to be verified and until they do you are simply looking for something to moan about.

His final GSA for Brum was 5.48 so whichever way you work it the chances are it will work out in the low 5's, which in practical terms means there would certainly be room for Kim Nilsson and probably Piotr Swiderski as an alternative. Can't think who else might be in the frame. Now there are two d/u riders there won't be room for Ben Barker who has been talked about.

Here we go again. A team names a rider, no official details of his average are given, mainly because all the teams have yet to be verified, there is a bit of sensible speculation by a few forum members as to what average he will come in in on then hey prest the chronic complainers arrive telling us something stinks and its supposedly typical nonsense that drives people mad about speedway. The only typical nonsense so far is forum members jumping to conclusions before the details are known. Why not wait until the teams are verified and we know who is on what average and why, then you can complain with something a bit more substantial than mere speculation.

A lot of home fans would love to see Swidderski back. When he last rode in 2013' he spent half his time nursing the out of form Seb Ulamek home so he would come in on a bit of a false average. At his best he is a genuine Heat 15 rider and we have all seen what he can do when the pressure is on, notably against Freddie Lindgren and Matej Zagar. His away form is a bit suspect on some tracks though. Worth a punt IMO.

If that's correct then Kymakorpi, Swiderski and Peter Karlsson would all fit.

Well, with two D/U riders already it means there will be no Ben Barker. I'll be gutted if Kennett is in at the expense of Kim Nilsson though.