E I Addio

At least someone understands the facts. Not many people seem to. . For some reason people choose to ignore the SCB's record of indecisiveness in these matters where Poole are concerned As I recall the Belle Vue matter was done and dusted in double quick time but the Poole matter was adjourned time after time until after the play offs by which time it didn't matter anyway. No way the SCB were going to deduct Pooles play off points anymore than they are going to deduct Darcy's points scored after his breath tests . It was the same with the cheating allegations in 2009. The SCB report said they had interviewed 20 rider s mechanics and trackstaff every single one of them attached to Poole and strangely enough none of them said they knew anything about cheating so they concluded there was no case to answer, What sums the forum up is a perfectly reasonable enquiry about the future of a track gets a perfectly factual answer and the thread gets hijacked by people who either can't read or read something that wasn't written.

i So the best you can come up with for "all manner of crap" is actually two episodes. I can't remember the Sam Masters episode and it seems you can't remember much about it either, but. The plain fact is that sort of thing happens quite a lot and not just with Lakeside. I remember Swindon coming to Lakeside with Cory Gathercole illegally in the side bu t there was no protest because it didn't change the match result and wouldn't have been worth £500 protest fee . Similar things happen with most clubs at times. The trouble with these situations as you well know is that illegal teams are ultimately a matter for the meeting referee. If he allows the rider to ride the chance s are you are going to lose your £500 protest fee if you take to the SCB who will sit on for months and do nothing. All roads lead back to the SCB and I am surprised people can't see that. It's like the SCB not ensuring Darcy' s points scored after his breathslyser were deducted despite the FIM ruling. That's not Lakeside pandering to Poole it's the SCB I have already dealt with the Poole v lakeside cancellation in my previous post. I am not sure how you get to the point that Swindon try to fight the Medzienski thing so that's alright but the Lakeside e /Poole match goes to the SCB and its somehow Lakeside's fault that the SCB did nothing . Surely both incidents are an indictment of the SCB rather than individual clubs . Anyway. Even if we said that Lakeside were 100 % responsible for that event 3 yedars ago that is not "all manner of crap " and the argument still doesn't sustain theclaim that Lakeside are playing MAJOR part in falling crowds in 2015 as opposed to being part of a collective failing. All the matters you mention and dozens of others involving a variety of clubs are symptomatic of a sport with hopelessly weak governance not the action of one or even a few clubs. The buck has to stop with the ruling body, as in any organisation.

Well come on then lets have a specific list of all. The times Lakeside in particular have let Poole get away with things that were nothing to do with anybody else. Lakeside were the ones that let Poole get away with t he heat 10 rain off against Belle Vue and let Poole get away with Poole snatching Medzienski away from Swindon so they could get Kasprzak in ? We still keep coming back to the basic point that whatever Lakeside have done or not done it's still difficult to sustain the argument that Lakeside have played a MAJOR part in the present state of the sport while all the rest are small part players , which is what was originally said. Advertising at the shopping centre has apparently been investigated. I forget the actual figures but at a fans forum several years ago we were told that to have a display in the car park was something like £1000 for one day, and someone said last year that even to put a small advert in the toilets was about £600 a year. The trouble with advertising in the shopping centre is that everyone has the same idea so they can charge top dollar and it's all strictly controlled by the landlords. I do think it would be an idea to try to have some sort of mutual link with the Harley Davidson shop though.

The allegation made was specifically Lakeside. The previous promotion was Arena Essex. Whilst I am the first to agree the TR rule is IMO one of the worst if not the worst rules the sport has, no if I had my way it would be abolished tomorrow, the fact remains that plent y of forum members have posted on here saying they like the rule and it plays a part in bringing interest to one sided meetings. So while certain macontents might stay away allegedly because of it where is the pspecific evidence that overall , on a roundabouts and swings basis it causes more to stay away than are attracted by the rule ? For. the record the present Lakeside promotion were one of those pressing for it to be reduced from two per match to one, which is the best compromise that could probably be achieved given Sky's obsession with the silly idea O So taking your other point, that Lakeside are one of the worst if not the worst offenders for letting Poole get away with "all manner of crap " , pr precisely what "all manner of crap" are you referring to ? There was of course the controversial cancellation of the Poole v Lakeside me ting a. few years ago . If you bothered to read the Speedwáy Star report ( and I know you would prefer not to check the facts) you would see that the matter was due to go before the SCB the following July but they did no thing, so what you are saying is that it's not Pooles fault, nothing to do with the toothless SCB , but all Lakeside's fault. Let's remember that when there were allegations of Poole fiddling the averages in 2009 to get Hans Andersen in it was Lakeside that asked the SCB to investigate whil e the rest were huffing and puffing and making comments in programme notes but not actu ally doing anything, and the SCB's half hearted investigation that finished up with no action being taken. Anyway let's be generous and say Lakeside have some culpability in the Poole cancellation. What other " manner of crap " have Lakeside in particular been responsible for letting Poole get away with as opposed to the SCB, the BSPA , Swindon Coventry and all the rest And just to keep our minds focussed let me say once again that my comment was the sport is shooting itself in the foot and I have not said Lakeside have not been part and parcel of that collective process. The point I challenged was the specific claim that Lakeside a re a MAJOR part of the problem as opposed to being part of a collective failing under a weak managing body. I don't think I can put it more succinctly than that. https://www.facebook.com/4645marques

I know from your other posts that you can't stand Lakeside but out of 20 or so clubs in operation Lakeside are a MAJOR part of the problem ? Everone else only plays MINOR parts then? I said the sport (collectively) is shooting itself in the foot and clearly Lakeside are by definition part of the collective sport and not exempt from blame .You are welcome to you r opinion the Lakeside are playing a MAJOR part but if Lakeside don't survive (and we know you will be delighted if they don't) don't belive for a moment the rest of them will get their act together . Not sure what you mean by "smell the coffee" . That's usually an empty platitude idiots use in the absence of coherent argument.

Speedway has in the past been one of the best supported sports in terms of total numbers of punters through the turnstiles over the course of a season, but no form of motor spor t, apart from F1 in more recent times has ever been accepted by the mainstream media a s anything motorised had never been regarded as. "proper " sport by the establishment, at least not in this country. Some years ago I had the floorboards up in my parents house and there were some old pages of some national newspapers from the early 1950's when the sport. was getting really big crowds but there was virtually nothing about Speedwáy apart from a few lines giving the line-ups for the evenings meetings. In the whole of my life the average people I have been in contact with had little idea what Speedwáy was about, but loads could talk about cricket , football etc, so it's really only ever been a minority sport, like most othe motor sports.

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The point has already been done to death on other threads. The site has been earmarked for redevelopment for years as part of the Thames Gateway project. Planning permission for the site is in its early stages. The club are in discussions with the local council. Thurrock , who are said to be sympathetic and want to keep Speedwáy in the area . The latest news is that there may be a new Speedwáy only stadium (I.e. No stock cars) within walking distance of the present site but it's still in the early stages of a long process with all the usual obstacles to be overcome., The bigger problem at the moment though seems to be the threat of crowds disappearing because of the way the sport is shooting itself in the foot.EDIT It seems there will be. Speedwáy at the present site in 2016

Not sure it works like that with Sky. How many times do they miss the attractive fixtures (unless it involves Poole ) and put a less significant one on. Take for example the last Lakeside broadcast. Lakeside had had on meeting in five weeks. Thanks to SWC etc, then when they finally got to two meetings on consecutive Friday's Sky decide to put Lakeside -v- Wolves on in the same week which is not only too much for the average supporter with a consequential affect on attendance , but it was of little interest to anyone except fans of the two clubs concerned. Worse still it had originally been an August fixture which in school holidays would have brought in a decent crowd . On top of that the next Sky fixture is Lakeside -v-Coventry, one side nailed on for the play offs , the other side out if it so again no interest to anyone except fans of the two clubs concerned, yet once again Sky in their wisdom are pulling th meeting from an August fixture when it is guaranteed a good crowd and putting it on in the same week as the Swindon visit, a lot won't bother to come twice in the snanme week. So, to be honest I am beginning to think Sky are more trouble than they are worth unless your name is Ford or Russell. Not alright now at all . Lakeside fans have been moaning about the EDR system all season. The fact that Adam Ellis has suddenly started doing well on it doesn't make a flawed system right. I have said on here several times that the disparity between the highest and the lowest is too great, and the picks are not equal. Ashley Birks injury highlights another problem . When a rider of his calibre gets injured there is no chance of getting a comparable guest. In short the Fast track has become the Farce Track, and the fact the Adam Ellis has suddenly stated going well in no way changes the fundamental flaw in the system.

I take your point but when you factor in GP weekends and the SWC that is a big chunk missing for teams with GP riders. I am not defending it but it is an example of how all these continental meetings we never used to have are messing up the domestic calendar plus of course have D/u riders. It's obviously not a desirable situation but the causes go much deeper than simply saying it bad fixture planning. You only have to go back two months to the A fixture when BV turned up with four guests. The difference then was Adam Ellis scored two points and BV won so nobody complained . This time Adam scored 12 +2 and Lakeside won, so suddenly it's all the fault of the fixture list. The vast majority of matches these days seem to be won and lost at EDR reserve. I think we have only had one meeting at Lakeside this year where neither team had a guest so it's not a problem unique to Bell Vue.

Hang on a minute before you go OTT. W hen the EL fixture list I s prepared the draw for the world U/21 's had not been made so nobody's knows who is riding where. Secondly nobody had a crystal ball so it's not possible to see in advance that Fricke and Neilson would have qualified this far. Belle Vue must have said their team where available on this date when the fixtures where set out. Since you raise the point let's look at Belle Vues conduct in this. They knew from day one that Cook and Grajzonek were at PL meetings on this date. They have had the whole season to line up suitable guests.. If they bothered to check they would have seen Zengota scored six points from six rides when he came with Swindon and was probably the worst possible choice of guest. They knew before Ashley Birks was injured that they would need an EDR guest and could have booked track specialist Ben Morely who scored 5+2.for them last time but instead went for Kyle Howarth, who scored 1, leaving Lakeside to get Ben this time round. I agree fixture clashes are a pain in the posterior but they are a feature of modern speedway, and the fixture list is erratic enough as it is its out juggling round on the basis that a rider MIGHT be drawn in a particular round and MIGHT qualify for the next round. Bottom line is that Belle Vue must have known their two D/u riders were unavailable when they agreed to the fixture and despite having fou,r months to sort guests out they made just about the worst choice of guests they could have made. That is a BeLle Vue management problem not a fixture list issue. Zengota was hopeless. Even got beat by Adam Ellis When Nicholls comes to Lakeside he is either very good or very bad with nothing in between. This time he was very good. Made a stunning pass between Kennett and Lawson who were team riding and generally rode like someone ten years younger. He is certainly having an Indian Summer in his career this year, but whether he can keep it up next year when he is a year older remains to be seen. Probably the outstanding rider of the night though , this time.

Accor,ding to today's Speedwáy Star Jonsson is fifth in the averages based on this years EL meetings, and is in fact one place above Chris Holder. AJ is only half a point behind Jason Doyle who is second in the SS averages, Magic is the only stand out rider in the top six or seven the rest are all pretty close to each other. Considering AJ has been carrying a pretty bad knee injury for the first few months of the season it a bit premature to write him off.He is currently tenth in the GP standings despite the knee injury. Vituallly all the number one riders except Magic have had some pretty dire meetings this year. Didn't a Holder drop to a second string role a while back ? All riders fluctuate. Age is not on his side but 34 is not old by today's standards.

That would be robbing the public who pay to see four riders in a race. I would say a warning the first time they do it, fine them £150'the second time then £300 the third time.

Confirms Rosco made the right choice. As for the rest of them this is the team that Jon Cook told us in his programme notes w as built for points on the road . This is bound to affect home crowds.

Not sure. I think legally that's a bit of a grey area.

I recently saw an advertisement in a shop window in Forest Gate, East London that said "Room to Let - Ghanains Only" which in essence seems to be the same thing as others that have said no blacks etc. Does this mean the law applies to some sections of society but not others, depending on where you come from? This of course is the same Forest Gate where other shops face prosecution by the local council if they advertise "black bags" or "black "rubbish bags". I don't agree entirely with TWK but I can see where he is coming from.

I don't disagree with any of that, but there is a difference between nostalgia and moaning for the sake of moaning, there are certain ones that invariably make the same disparaging comments after every TV meetingirrespective of whether it was good or bad. One wonders why they bother.

So when they move into the 1-5 are you still going to pay them £40 a point ? The point if the original Fast Track scheme was to save money. You can sort of get by with having protected heats but the majority are not going to be able to compete most if the time with bona fide second strings. I am with you in principle but I can't see the finances working and there are not really sufficient quality youngsters coming through. I am beginning to wonder if any scheme is going to work until more quality riders start coming through.

On the contrary , I think it gives you great pleasure to have a dig.. Nobody has said that the state of the sport is ideal, or that the rules are perfect, but most agree there are few experiences like the smell of methanol,, the noise of tortured Jawa's and GM's , the moment of tension as they come under starters orders, or the spectacle of 4 riders in bucking speed irons with no brakes on an unstable surface for One hot Minute. Unfortunately the best you can come up with for not attending a sport you are purportedly passionate about is you don't like the double points rule. As has been pointed out endless times on here the double points rule is less unfair than the tactical substitute rule that preceded it for decades and you must have been going to speedway for years and years under the old TS rule. TBH I loathe the TR rule but some people like it and any mature person would have to accept that when there are a thousand or more other people attending any event there will be differing opinions and you cant have everything your own way. You have to get along with people.As much as I hate the TR rule myself I have to admit that in its present form its probably less unfair than its ever been and if you are going to let that keep you away fair enough but moaning on a forum is not going to change it. I doubt you have advised the SCB of you views. As Halifax Tiger said most of the constant complainers are those who never go anymore, but my original comment was really aimed at those who come on here after virtually every TV and whose command of the ENGLISH language is limited to " It was crap!", which as I said before leads on to wonder why they don't flick mover to another channel if its that bad.

Yes we would all like to go back to the days when we were younger, the summers were longer, and the music was better. From what I remember about those days though there were always old boys in the crowd at every stadium telling us it was better when they were young and there were real men like Jack Parker and Split Waterman on the track.. I have books that tell me how great the sport was when Cyclone Billy Lamont and Cordy Milne wee riding so maybe we ought to get rid of GM's and have everyone leg trailing Douglases an and Scotts to see if that brings the crowds back. The fact is that nostalgia aint what it used to be and the central theme of perennial moaners, not just in speedway but in every walk of life is that whatever they are moaning about was better in the past. Unless you can invent a time machine the past wont be coming back so we have deal with the present which, incidental is what the thread is about, otherwise it would be in the years gone by section.

Hi Hammer, you have to throw into the equation the fact that some people just enjoy a good moan. If you haven't worked it out already you'll soon work out that it's the same ones that never have anything good to say. Makes you wonder why they have anything to do with them sport if it upsets them so much and the only conclusion you can draw is they are sad dos that enjoy a good moan. For he rest us I gues we are on an addictive roll or coaster that makes you feel you want to throw yourself of a cliff when your team is doing badly and has you walking on air for days after a good win. Apart from the chronic complainers the rest of the banter should be taken wit.h a large shovel of salt. Most fans my arem ok when You meet up with them.

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The object of the exercise was to save money. If you don't have protected heats and reserves are expected to go against heatleaders then its no good expecting them to ride for £40 per point. . Not disagreeing in principle with what you say but finances rule it out.

I enjoyed that meeting. Pity Leicester had such a long tail but there was some good racing with a fair bit of passing and re-passing. Heat 1 was probably the race of the season : Doyle took the lead in bend 1 , first AJ then Bech passed him , then Doyle regained the lead with a swoop round the inside, then AJ and Bech passed him again, to take the 5-1. Great commitment from all of them. Big cheers on parade for Watt and Swiderski , who are both still very popular at Lakeside. It took Swidders a while to get properly dialled in but his heat 15 swoop off bend 4 to pass AJ was his classic move that made him so popular when he was a Hammer . No problems getting dialled in for Watty though. He was involved in the thick of the action in his paid 10, and one of the best races of the night was the way he hunted down and passed Doyle in heat 10 with Doyle on a tactical, although Jason repaid the compliment in heat 13 to spoil Davey's paid max. Jason Doyle was very entertaining. So much improvement from him in a space of 4 or five years. Richard Lawson slipped smoothly and almost unnoticed to 11 points from his first 4 rides but struggled in heat 15, but a competent performance from him. Kennett and Bech were better than their scores suggest. Ben Morley had a point to prove and did it with a terrific ride to win the last reserves race from the back. Adam Ellis looked light years better than a couple of months ago, managed to stay on his bike and was riding good racing lines instead of getting stuck in no mans land, so well done to him Richie Worrall was a reasonable guest but I feel he needs to be given a regular EL place next year if he is to reach is potential. I was looking forward to seeing Simon Lambert but he still hasn't worked the track out, but then again nor has the more experienced Walasek, and Wosniak. . I was quite impressed by Adam Roynon though. There were a few flashes of what might have been if his career had not been plagued by injury. There is a certain amount of talent there but whether he can now reach his potential is perhaps doubtful; And finally the announcement from Jon Cook on the mic that the fans wanted to hear "A certain Mr Jonsson has just said he will be back next year ".Next year is a of course a long way off but if things work out and AJ is back I suspect Mikkel Bech will be back as well as both will be on decent team building averages this time and given Kim Nilsson's improvement this year and the fact he is an asset maybe we can see the sort of team that is taking shape. Dave Watt also said on the mic that the only two clubs he is interested in riding for in Britain are Poole and Lakeside so does he know something or am I reading too much into it ? He has his critics but on last nights performance of paid 10 you could do a lot worse than Davey with the others mentioned . We shall have to wait and see.