E I Addio

You have totally missed the point of what I said. The point was that in days gone by the investment in machinery was a lot less than it is now. One bike pretty much lasting a season, now two bikes needing to be serviced every few meetings, therefore todays costs are bound to be far higher I think everybody understands that. I don't understand the rest of your post. DIDENT...ridding....engins....sence....sick the bike in the dirt. Even Sidney would struggle with that.

True. I have a copy of Classic Speedway which has an interview with Norman Hunter who retired in the 1970' s and he says he retired because he opened up a motor-cycle shop and the intention was that his speedway should subsidise this the motor-cycle business but it ended up being the other way round. However the world has changed a lot since the days of Mick Bell and Norman Hunter. In the past running a small business was alright as a side line but there are so many regulations, now and it so difficult to compete as say a private garage owner against the corporate bodies that it really needs full time attention. Having said that, some riders don't have much idea of finances. I often have a wry smile when I see riders turning up in big vans with a mechanic doing then driving, then Richard Lawson arrives with everything crammed into his little VW Carry, with bikes he has basically prepared himself and then goes out and gets a bigger score. It is difficult though. Richjie Worrall talks about £20, 000 investment in bikes before you even start on vans etc, and that is an expense that riders didn't have in the past. Terry Betts for example used to have one bike and all he basically did , according to him, was change the valve springs when needed, The one engine would last a season then he would buy another one the following year..

Is it a problem with the riders or a problem with the system ? That's a difficult one. Sam Ermolenko says that when he came over he just had to get on with it and succeed or pack up and go home , and his take is that British riders have home comforts that distracts from the absolute determination to succeed. I can see where he is coming from. There are enough overseas riders making a living in the UK without any help from anyone yet are collectively good enough to beat a team of GB riders or at least run them close. I don't. Hear any of the overseas riders complaining about their lot, yet Robert Lambert hardly stops moaning about the BSPA , and now Richie Worrall has put his spoke in, so in many ways the riders themselves could do wi th getting their heads down and getting on with it. However we have to face the fact that the success of British Speedwáy depends on having successful British riders, at all levels. The sport cannot survive on overseas riders alone, so to that extent there needs to be some formula to keep home grown riders in the sport making a decent living, and if you are going to have a system for goodness sake do the job properly. You mention Robert Lambert who is in rather a different situation to Richie Worrall. Lambert, like Tai Woffinden and Scott Nicholls before him and indeed Leigh Adams and others has had parents that funded their sons careers from a young age so by the time they get to 16 they are wound up ready to go. On the other hand riders like Richie Worrall, Craig Cook and Richard Lawson have come over. from moto cross and didn't really start their Speedwáy careers until they were turned 20 so they have a lot of ground to make up. By that age they were no longer able to rely on Mum and Dad but have to earn enough to make it worthwhile Make no mistake about it, British Speedwáy cannot survive purely on riders coming in at 16, there has to be some means of get ting more young men of 20+ into the spor t and to a standard where they can earn a decent living ,not so much for there benefit , but for the benefit of the sport. O I

To be fair he says he doesn't think he would want to ride in the EL at reserve for £50 or £60'a point racing against guys on £130 or £140 a point when he has the same equipment costs. That is a fair comment. He also makes the cogent point that what the promoters are saving in EDL riders wages they possibly are losing to falling crowd numbers. Another good point he makes is that the Fast Track should be for the PL. However the PL promoters have absolutely no interest in anything outside their own little worlds and are more than happy with the current rent-a- foreigner scheme.mtherein lies the problem. The problem of riders like Richie, Ben Barker etc has to addressed because it's clear they are making no progress in the PL and need something better than the EDR scheme to kick start their careers.

The track itself will take a relatively small amount of land. I think the bigger problem is noise near residential areas, whoever you put it. If I have correctly understood what has been said it should not be too difficult to keep noise down by building it with banking all round, much the same as the present track. I don't understand the technicalities of it though. As has been said the local council have been making all the right noises and Jon Cooks programme notes on the subject have been cautiously optimistic but it's early days yet and there are obvious hurdles to be overcome. The more immediate problem, according to JC's latest programme notes is maintaining crowd levels at an acceptable standard during a season where things have been going wrong, resulting in falling attendances, jnot least the unfortinate injury to AJ at a critical time, resulting in four consecutive home losses. The crowd at the last meeting looked a bit better so hopefully the trend can be reversed.

It's probably more accurate to say it gave a start to a lot riders that became good, and probably fair to say the whole standard of the Provincisl League was raised immeasurably in the five years of its existence. Len Silver for example was only ever a 4/5 point second string in the then National League in several years with Ipswich , but when he dropped to the Provincial League with Exeter he became PL Champion in 1962 which was the pinnacle of his career but by the time the old PL combined with the NL a lot of young riders were coming through who were to go on to much greater things than Len Silver ever achieved. Not just Msuger but a number of top riders of the late 60's and 70's like Ray Wilson Malcolm Simmons , Norman Hunter Colin Pratt Trevor Hedge and Eric Boocock, all came through the ranks of the Provincial League.

Do you know. If Bill Posters will be banned ?

Lakeside were interested in Przedpelski until they discovered he would come in on a 7.5 average. It's big ask for aPole to come to British tracks he has never ridden before and is not used to and hit that sort of average straight away. The season would probably be over before he gets dialled in.

I think you might find Jon Cook is out of the frame for a while. The reason he gave for resigning was that he needs more time to devote to his own club which primarily includes trying to get a new home up and running. He also needs to spend some time getting the team back to winning ways. Personally I have felt for a long time the MC duties have been too much of a distraction from running Lakeside. He is now in the programme as joint team manager which I think is one thing he does do well. I think also the sooner Harkess steps down the better.

My goodness you really are struggling to dig your way out of that hole. Having been totally unable to explain why Lakeside, the club have been any mor e responsible than anyone else for falling attendances you now move the goalposts to focus on an individual who is not the club, merely one member o f the promotional team. Just as Swindon fans have had to explain to the intellectually challenged at Rosco the Swindon manager is not the same as Rosco the Team GB manager, Cooks role on the MC is not the same as his position as on the Lakeside promotional team. The principle of collective responsibily on the MC or any other committee means all committee members bear equal resposibility for the committees decisions. Notwithstanding that point the MC of the BSPA are not the body with overall responsibility for the sport , that is the Speedwáy Contriol Bureau ( the clue is in the i ) and the buck ultimately stops with them. They, above all else must carry can for weak leadership. So once again despite your persistent trolling of Lakeside threads you have once again failed to back up your original claim that Lakeside bear major responsibility for the state the sport is in .. You might as well either quit while you are behind or go off and start a Jon Cook thread because your spurious claims are misplaced on an Arena Essex thread, which started off as a perfectly reasonable enquiry about the clubs future before you jumped in.

Well that post hardly squares up with your original post that said Lakeside are a major part of the problem.. I agree that for years the EL has been crying out for leadership but by definition leadership can only come from the governing body. As long as the tail continues to wag the dog various shenanigans will always be going on

It all depends on which rumour monger you listen to. The bigger issue is which clubs will be running at all next year. At least one PL club looks like going under according to Speedwáy Star .

Yes you did and some of us knew you were right at the time As ever, the keyboard warriors are not interested in the facts. If you are going to forget the dictionary, then words mean whatever you want them to mean and we won't get anywhere.. In answer to your specific question the answer is no it was not an easy bread and butter league. Speedwáy is a tough sport and it's never easy in any sport when you are competing against competitors of similar ability.. It's just as difficult for say Rohan Tungste to win a race in the PL as it is for tai Woffinden to win a race in a GP , it's just that the PL has riders of less ability than the GP's but that doesn't mean it's easier for those competing at that level.. thsts no criticism of the riders riding at Pl level though. They ride to the best of their ability, which is obviously a lower standard than. GPs. Same with thme old NL.

Did, get your dictionary out. A journeyman is literally a qualified tradesman who has served his a apprenticeship but is not a Master craftsman in Speedwáy terms that clearly means a decent rider who is not ready for the top league. Bwitchervwas spot on with that description. Mediocre simply means medium, average, middle of the road etc . Clearly to describe riders as journeymen or mediocre is in no sense of the word an insult or a put down,it simply means competent without being the best . If they were the best they obviously wouldn't be in the lower league.

I think Mauger was also a master of faffing around at the gate to unsettle the opposition. I have heard that whenever Colin Pratt was out against Mauger he would just sit at the pit gate with his engine stopped until Mauger finished all his messing around and eventually settled down, then Colin would get his mechanic to push him off and line up with a relatively cool clutch. Pratts laconic comment nwas apparently on the line s of " That (blank blank) can p**s around burning his clutch out if he wants to but I'm not going to". Not everyone was a laid back as Pratty though. I think a lot of Maugers skill was that a lot of riders were psyched out by him before they even came to the tapes.

Funny the things you hear from people who think they are in the know. I heard Richie Worral was valued at £90,000 but Belle Vue got him for the knock down price of £45,000. That wasn't true either. It's amazing the number of people who have been around Speeedway for years still believe the. same old gossip. The latest one I heard (last Friday ) was that Lakeside will be running next year but Jon Cook won't be there. No chance of that either. The golden rule in Speedwáy is believe it when it happens but I guess you know that already !!

At least someone understands the facts. Not many people seem to. . For some reason people choose to ignore the SCB's record of indecisiveness in these matters where Poole are concerned As I recall the Belle Vue matter was done and dusted in double quick time but the Poole matter was adjourned time after time until after the play offs by which time it didn't matter anyway. No way the SCB were going to deduct Pooles play off points anymore than they are going to deduct Darcy's points scored after his breath tests . It was the same with the cheating allegations in 2009. The SCB report said they had interviewed 20 rider s mechanics and trackstaff every single one of them attached to Poole and strangely enough none of them said they knew anything about cheating so they concluded there was no case to answer, What sums the forum up is a perfectly reasonable enquiry about the future of a track gets a perfectly factual answer and the thread gets hijacked by people who either can't read or read something that wasn't written.

i So the best you can come up with for "all manner of crap" is actually two episodes. I can't remember the Sam Masters episode and it seems you can't remember much about it either, but. The plain fact is that sort of thing happens quite a lot and not just with Lakeside. I remember Swindon coming to Lakeside with Cory Gathercole illegally in the side bu t there was no protest because it didn't change the match result and wouldn't have been worth £500 protest fee . Similar things happen with most clubs at times. The trouble with these situations as you well know is that illegal teams are ultimately a matter for the meeting referee. If he allows the rider to ride the chance s are you are going to lose your £500 protest fee if you take to the SCB who will sit on for months and do nothing. All roads lead back to the SCB and I am surprised people can't see that. It's like the SCB not ensuring Darcy' s points scored after his breathslyser were deducted despite the FIM ruling. That's not Lakeside pandering to Poole it's the SCB I have already dealt with the Poole v lakeside cancellation in my previous post. I am not sure how you get to the point that Swindon try to fight the Medzienski thing so that's alright but the Lakeside e /Poole match goes to the SCB and its somehow Lakeside's fault that the SCB did nothing . Surely both incidents are an indictment of the SCB rather than individual clubs . Anyway. Even if we said that Lakeside were 100 % responsible for that event 3 yedars ago that is not "all manner of crap " and the argument still doesn't sustain theclaim that Lakeside are playing MAJOR part in falling crowds in 2015 as opposed to being part of a collective failing. All the matters you mention and dozens of others involving a variety of clubs are symptomatic of a sport with hopelessly weak governance not the action of one or even a few clubs. The buck has to stop with the ruling body, as in any organisation.

Well come on then lets have a specific list of all. The times Lakeside in particular have let Poole get away with things that were nothing to do with anybody else. Lakeside were the ones that let Poole get away with t he heat 10 rain off against Belle Vue and let Poole get away with Poole snatching Medzienski away from Swindon so they could get Kasprzak in ? We still keep coming back to the basic point that whatever Lakeside have done or not done it's still difficult to sustain the argument that Lakeside have played a MAJOR part in the present state of the sport while all the rest are small part players , which is what was originally said. Advertising at the shopping centre has apparently been investigated. I forget the actual figures but at a fans forum several years ago we were told that to have a display in the car park was something like £1000 for one day, and someone said last year that even to put a small advert in the toilets was about £600 a year. The trouble with advertising in the shopping centre is that everyone has the same idea so they can charge top dollar and it's all strictly controlled by the landlords. I do think it would be an idea to try to have some sort of mutual link with the Harley Davidson shop though.

The allegation made was specifically Lakeside. The previous promotion was Arena Essex. Whilst I am the first to agree the TR rule is IMO one of the worst if not the worst rules the sport has, no if I had my way it would be abolished tomorrow, the fact remains that plent y of forum members have posted on here saying they like the rule and it plays a part in bringing interest to one sided meetings. So while certain macontents might stay away allegedly because of it where is the pspecific evidence that overall , on a roundabouts and swings basis it causes more to stay away than are attracted by the rule ? For. the record the present Lakeside promotion were one of those pressing for it to be reduced from two per match to one, which is the best compromise that could probably be achieved given Sky's obsession with the silly idea O So taking your other point, that Lakeside are one of the worst if not the worst offenders for letting Poole get away with "all manner of crap " , pr precisely what "all manner of crap" are you referring to ? There was of course the controversial cancellation of the Poole v Lakeside me ting a. few years ago . If you bothered to read the Speedwáy Star report ( and I know you would prefer not to check the facts) you would see that the matter was due to go before the SCB the following July but they did no thing, so what you are saying is that it's not Pooles fault, nothing to do with the toothless SCB , but all Lakeside's fault. Let's remember that when there were allegations of Poole fiddling the averages in 2009 to get Hans Andersen in it was Lakeside that asked the SCB to investigate whil e the rest were huffing and puffing and making comments in programme notes but not actu ally doing anything, and the SCB's half hearted investigation that finished up with no action being taken. Anyway let's be generous and say Lakeside have some culpability in the Poole cancellation. What other " manner of crap " have Lakeside in particular been responsible for letting Poole get away with as opposed to the SCB, the BSPA , Swindon Coventry and all the rest And just to keep our minds focussed let me say once again that my comment was the sport is shooting itself in the foot and I have not said Lakeside have not been part and parcel of that collective process. The point I challenged was the specific claim that Lakeside a re a MAJOR part of the problem as opposed to being part of a collective failing under a weak managing body. I don't think I can put it more succinctly than that. https://www.facebook.com/4645marques

I know from your other posts that you can't stand Lakeside but out of 20 or so clubs in operation Lakeside are a MAJOR part of the problem ? Everone else only plays MINOR parts then? I said the sport (collectively) is shooting itself in the foot and clearly Lakeside are by definition part of the collective sport and not exempt from blame .You are welcome to you r opinion the Lakeside are playing a MAJOR part but if Lakeside don't survive (and we know you will be delighted if they don't) don't belive for a moment the rest of them will get their act together . Not sure what you mean by "smell the coffee" . That's usually an empty platitude idiots use in the absence of coherent argument.

Speedway has in the past been one of the best supported sports in terms of total numbers of punters through the turnstiles over the course of a season, but no form of motor spor t, apart from F1 in more recent times has ever been accepted by the mainstream media a s anything motorised had never been regarded as. "proper " sport by the establishment, at least not in this country. Some years ago I had the floorboards up in my parents house and there were some old pages of some national newspapers from the early 1950's when the sport. was getting really big crowds but there was virtually nothing about Speedwáy apart from a few lines giving the line-ups for the evenings meetings. In the whole of my life the average people I have been in contact with had little idea what Speedwáy was about, but loads could talk about cricket , football etc, so it's really only ever been a minority sport, like most othe motor sports.

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The point has already been done to death on other threads. The site has been earmarked for redevelopment for years as part of the Thames Gateway project. Planning permission for the site is in its early stages. The club are in discussions with the local council. Thurrock , who are said to be sympathetic and want to keep Speedwáy in the area . The latest news is that there may be a new Speedwáy only stadium (I.e. No stock cars) within walking distance of the present site but it's still in the early stages of a long process with all the usual obstacles to be overcome., The bigger problem at the moment though seems to be the threat of crowds disappearing because of the way the sport is shooting itself in the foot.EDIT It seems there will be. Speedwáy at the present site in 2016