E I Addio

Unfortunately, if you check the title of the thread, it doesn't ask how long anyone had been going to Speedwáy and it doesn't ask who has acted as an official. It has nothing to do with how many tracks used to be in the London area or how many there are now, nor does it have anything to do with whether the sport was better in the past than it is today. It doesn't ask for opinions on pricing and it certainly doesnt ask for opinions on the present state of the sport. Yet somehow you have managed to churn out no less than 15 paragraphs rambling on about all of the above points while singularly failing to touch on the topic the tread is about, which is quite simply, where did all this arguing take place before the Internet. Hardly rocket science to keep on topic but somehow you have managed to cover almost everything else but that.

Yes , but that's not the point of issue at the moment. The point under discussion is whether there are more serious injuries today than in the past and if so whether its due to more powerful bikes. F1 has been made safer principally by two things. The first is more run off areas and crash absorbent materials materials to absorb the impact, and the second, and perhaps more important is that technological developments have allowed cars to beak up on impact while the drivers compartment remains solid. This again is aimed at absorbing impact. Plus of course things like fire resistant overalls, but done of this applies to speedway. Motorcycle racing including speedway has had advances in things like body armour, and especially crash helmets, which are infinitely better than the "pudding basin" styles of the past but there are mixed opinions of the riders on these things. Tony Rickardson for example , didn't wear body armour because he felt it was too restrictive and he had more chance of avoiding a crash with out it . Same with neck braces. many riders don't wear them and I don't think Darcy was in his accident although it is debateable whether it would have made any difference.. I am not dismissing the points you make but sometimes these things have to wait for technology to catch up but I might be wrong about this but I don't think there are many EL tracks that have seen many career threatening injuries over the last few years

True. I don't know if it is still the case but the ACU handbook used to state that if you take up motorcycle racing you will get hurt, possibly seriously. That is a plain fact that the competitors accept and the spectators ought to. But it is hell of a lot of fun, and that's why they do it.

The point I was making about fatalities is that West Ham was one track but had four fatalities in approx.17 years of post war operation.add to that Hackney that had at least another couple in league matches plus I think at least one on a training day,and that is six or seven on two London tracks alone plus others elsewhere. Now compare that to the whole of the UK in the last 17 years and I think it's clear that West Ham and Hackney alone had more fatalities than the whole of the UK has had in modern times, and that's without the crippling injuries sustained at Hackney by Steve Weatherly and Graham Miles. The 5 serious accidents you refer to include 3 thst occurred in Poland. The problem is in pre-Internet days we didn't know what was happening on the continent and in the 60's Poland was of course under communist rule so nothing got reported over here anyway, so it's not really comparing like with like. What I will say is that it does APPEAR to me that there are more crashes these days, but appearances can be deceiving. We see speedway on TV from all over Europe, and action replays draw our attention to the crashes, and the Internet reports them, so we are more focussed on them. An avid follower on TV might see several big crashes a week but really , if you are only spectating at one track bad crashes are not usually commonplace. By far the biggest danger in any form of motorcycle racing is falling off and hitting something. High speed crashes often result in nothing more than cuts and bruises as long as the rider doesn't hit anything. If he hits something or is hit even at fairly low speed it can cause serious injury. Alan Wilkinsons tragic accident at Belle Vue would probably have done no harm if an air fence had been used in those days, and clearly the air fence has prevented many serious injuries. I don't think aI can add to that but it does seem, to me at least that that a probable increase in crashes is offset but air fences, body armour, and far better crash helmets etc. I don't see any evidence at all though that increased speed is a factor of itself.

Just remind us how many fatalities there were at Custom House in the post war period up to 1972? By the time the place closed the t rack had been shortened to 415 yards and the track record was 70.2. Your estimate of 65 sec is probably not far out based on the times they do at the slightly smaller Swindon so in real terms the actual speeds are not necessarily a lot faster in terms of mph. The faster you go the harder it is to improve on times. And don't forget bikes steer and handle better today than in the past. Rico Schlein and Ward we re all injured on big fast tracks abroad,not the small tight tracks TWK was on about. Rico and Darcy's accidents happened following touching someone else's rear wheel which is, and always has been of the most common causes of serious injury in Speedwáy.

I am not surprised you are blue in the face because once again you make a knee jerk reaction and say the first thing that comes into your head without any evidence to back up what you say. For one thing I don't think there are any tracks that date from 1928. The oldest I can think of off-hand date from around 1948 ish and even they have had alterations to there shape over the years. As for tracks being too small and tight for modern machinery the tightest track in the EL is Lakeside and I can't remember the last time we had a serious injury there. Adam Shields had a bad knee injury around 2010/11 and Kauko Neminen broke his shoulder back in 2008 but that's about it as far as I can recall about from relatively minor injuries. Whatever the reason for accidents, powerful bikes on tight t racks obviously isn't it,and arguing till you are blue in the face on a non point that hasn't been thought through does you no credit. Personally I don't think the serious injury rate has increased at all over the years, although air fences and body armour mean a lot of riders at e walking away from very spectacular crashes these days.

The second line sums up gustix exactly. It's quite clear from all the other posts that everyone else's thoughts are with Darcy. At times like this the whole Speedwáy family pull together with messages of support.

Plenty of people compete in various disciplines of motorcycling and other dangerous sports for that matter for no financial rewards at all. In fact in costs them a lot of money to compete. Others join the army and volunteer to go on dangerous missions in war zones or bomb disposal for less money than they could earn driving a train on the London Underground. I had several years of motor,cycle competition, and like most of my mates finished I up in hospital eventually. At the time I thought it was the most fulfilling thing in life, and to some extent I still do, but one day something snaps in your brain, your confidence goes and the desire is not there anymore. Looking back now I think in some ways I must have been mad to take risks that could have had life changing consequeces, and no way would I do it now, but having said that, it gave me a sense of independence, self confidence and particularly self discipline that I am sure I wouldn't have gained doing anything else so on balance I am glad I did and benefitted by it but being being older and wiser I wouldn't do it again, if that makes sense.

No it's called gustix being self righteous and pompous as usual. Darcy is being discussed on various threads, every comment is respectful and people are genuinely concerned for Darcy. So unless you have any valid contribution just shut up and let proper fans continue posting responsibly.

In the past all the old dossers who got fed up with the sport just drifted off and we never heard of them again. Now they sit at their keyboard boring everybody silly and bleating that they don't go anymore because they want the old days back. Not the real old days as they really were just the old days as they like to remember them, when there were no rain offs, no freezing cold meetings, no crashes delaying things and all the promoters were honourable men whose word was their bond.

That is exactly the point. A team with a strong top two and weaker tail, especially the away side , is more likely to fall behind in the first half of the meeting, but they are then perfectly poised for their No1 or No 5 to take a TR in heats 10 or 11 then have those two out again together in heats 13 and 15.

Kasprzak was another one whose career never really took off and was hopelessly unreliable until he broke away from his fathers influence.

The score sheet tells its own story:- Lakeside 1-5 scored 37 Poole 1-5 scored 31 Lakeside EDR Reserves 3 Poole EDR reserves 19 That pretty much sums up all of Lakesides frustrating season at home. There are four teams whose 1-5 have averaged less than the Hammers 1-5. Still no use crying over spilt milk, just relieved to see the end of a dreadful season, although at the moment there seems to be a reasonable chance of another season at the track, although nothing is certain at this stage. Apart from the fact that the EDR position made the result inevitable it was a decent meeting and I can't take anything away from Poole who do look like probably the most solid side we have seen at Lakeside this year and on this form do look like play off (or even pokc ) favourites, especially now Coventry and KL seem to be unravelling. I hope ,Magic is OK after the most scary crash we have seen a Lakeside for a long. long time. Magic was leading when AJ came off bend 4 with a lot of speed and squeezed between Magic and the safety fence, Magic seemed to lean which somehow seemed to cause Magic to pick up a lot of grip and the bike reared up and threw him of. Luckily the bike demolished the safety fence going into bend one and Magic bounced along without hitting anything but it was a really bad looking one . AJ did well to miss him. Didn't do the bike a lot of good though. Apart from that AJ looked a class apart and it took a terrific ride from the gate by track specialist Dave Watt to inflict his only defeat. Davy has his critics but it looked like the old Davy last night and I enjoyed watching him. I was once again very impressed with Max Fricke who must surely be going on to big things in the sport. His dices with Dakota North I thought were excellent and to be fair I though that Dak was far, far better than the score sheet showed. Kim Nilsson clearly not match fit yet and his gating was naff but he'll be back. I have really warmed to Ed Kennett this season . He lacks self belief at times but he really wanted his win over Holder. Holder must have thought he had Nicki Pedersen inside him in the fight for the first bend. So overall a disappointing result to a good meeting before the best crowd of the season, proving that even without Darcy Poole can pull the punters in so I have to wish them well for the Play-offs The meeting closed with a very emotional speech to the crowd by Jon Cook thanking them for their support during what he called nine roller coaster years. According to what he said to the crowd and in the programme notes there is a fair chance this wont be the last ever meeting at Lakeside but things are still uncertain and there will be further announcements when there is more definite news. He also apologised for and took the responsibility for the teams disappointing performance this year. So, the end of an awful season which we can hope wont be the last Best wishes to all clubs left in the play off chase

He is certainly the best of the EDR riders apart from Garrity, I'll grant you that

True. Makes you wonder why Zengota couldn't beat the draft reserves when he guested for Belle Vue.

Ironically he was about the only one who ever did beat Briggo at Custom House. Briggs comment about the West Ham track was "it was so big and wide I knew I could pass anywhere" and he invariably did except that occasion against the Stan Stevens. I never saw Mauger at Belle Vue but Briggo at West Ham had a dominance rarely seen in speedway

Therein lies the problem then. I suppose the other thing is if it were moved to 4th September and that was rained off they would go past the cut off date.

It is a continuing indictment of the farce that the EDR system has descended into. The vast majority of EL meetings are decided at reserve these days when you analyse it. A totally disastrous season for the Lakeside promotion, some problems being self inflicted, others outside their control but the absolute bottom line is that British Speedwáy , for all its many other faults is being wrecked by the extensive continental calendar and GP calendar plus qualifiers . and the absolute shambles that the EDR system has become. If Lakeside go under this year, as well they might,these problems will not go with them . They will land on someone else's doorstep, as indeed they already are hitting a couple of other clubs. Its all very well for people like Gater 1 to make their self righteous and pious comments but unless these two problems are resolved this winter (which seems unlikely) they will kill off top league racing in this country within a season, and that is before we even think about the multitude of other problems the sport faces. The situation is that serious IMO not just for Lakeside but for the whole sport.

The Lakeside fixture list has a date reserved for rain off on 4th Sept. That presumably could be used to re-stage this match although that in turn would mean no meetings. In the whole of August which in turn means a lack of momentum that everyone complains about, There were originally three meetings scheduled for August but thanks to Sky two of them were moved forward so once again Sky get the if way and the fans suffer. After Ashley Birks was injured Jon Cook said in his programme notes that Ben Morely would be given first option to guest in the remaining matches. Ben has been quite happy to take guest bookings since then for Lakeside so we don't know why he is not ri,ding this time. Seems reasonable to assume ££££'s may have had something to do with it unless anyone has any first hand knowledge of what might have gone on behind the scenes.

Only if he gets his mother out if the pits and gets himself some proper management.

A number of respected Speedwáy historians regard Jack Young as one the the most naturally talented riders ever. He started riding just after the Second World War on what was basically a converted road bike. By his second season he had gained sponsorship and on a proper Speedwáy bike he beat the Australian team captain, Bill Longley. It is Speedwáy folklore that he won his first World Title while still a second division rider with Edinburgh, and to prove it was no fluke he scored 19 maximums in 38 matches the following season with West Ham in the First Division. (Darcy Ward eat yer heart out ! ) But natural talent was not enough. By the mid 1950' s a new breed of rider was coming along with a new brand of professionalism, their names were Barry Briggs, Ronnie Moore, Peter Craven and Ove Fundin. Jack wasn't really into all that . Rather than spend days travelling across Australia chasing titles he preferred to go fishing. With a different of more professional outlook he might well have been several more titles, but who knows. As Bwitcher says you have can only compare like with like, but there is no doubt Jack Young was a massive talent and if I could go back in time at see one rider at his peak I think I'd probably pick Jack. Based on everything I have read and researched on the sport I would say that in terms of sheer natural talent alone on the bike, and not counting tthe other things the top ones are probably Jack Young Ronnie Moore and Darcy. Ward.

They woulldnt want him in the side. It was a tongue in cheek parody of the reiability of Matty's promises. How many riders down the years has he picked up and dropped as it suits him.

Have a guess, based on the way Poole usually do things. Choice of three alternatives:- 1. £ ...........(brown envelope) 2. £...........,.(backhander) 3. Hi Ben, Matt here, Muddlo and I are very keen to have you in our squad next year, almost nailed on in fact, if if you guest for us you are as good as in .

That's a fair post . Of course we only have Rosco's word for it that Cook stormed off in a temper and threw his toys out of the pram. The other side of the coin is that's rider needs permission of the Clerk of the Course to leave the pits. Now if Cook had been incorrectly given permission the it's understandable that he should come back because it's not his mistake. If he did leave the pits withouT the CoC' s permission how come Rosco didn't mention that ? So what is the truth if the matter. According to Rosco's rant on the.Swindon website Cook slammed the dressing room door so hard he took the door clean off its hinges . Really ? Frankly I find, that very difficult to belive. For one thing if Rsoco was in the pits he wouldn't know what happened when Cook was in the changing room. Secondly it s very difficult indeed to take a door off BOTH hinges unless it's loose anyway. Thirdly if the door was taken off its hinges someone else must know about it but we only have Rosco's word on this when he clearly wasn't there to see what happened. Unless someone knows something about the door coming off its hinges or Cook storming off without permission of the CoC Its looks like another one of Rosco's rants that we have seen with increasing frequency in the last few years. " In victory- magnaminity, in defeat-defiannce". - Winston Churchill "In victory- go round crowing about it, in defeat- have a rant". - Rosco

Here's a radical idea. How about the rules to be applied as written down in the Speedwáy Regualations and interpreted in accordance with the English Language, instead of promoters able to form little cartels and change the rules at will as and when it suits them. Or what about when EL clubs sign a PL rider with an EL average they have to use the EL average instead of fiddling it through on the PL average? Or how about some sort of penalty for referees who don't know/don't apply the rules correctly and thereby rob the paying public?