E I Addio

Oh (groan) I can't go through it all again. You have jumped a few posts and missed a few links in the chain, so to speak. I was asking SCB if he had read the report because the summary he posted was different to the summary someone else posted . He now admits he hadn't even read the SS article when he lurched towards the keyboard and went into one. Someone else had already questioned the accuracy of the article. It's all very complicated when people only read half the posts . I hope to read the article itself later.

Since it has not even been mentioned on the Lakeside forum and all the talk is about approving the appointment of top TV presenter Kelvin Tatum I would say if anything King Kel would get a few more through the gate. Doubt if the Lakeside regulars give a toss what Cook said in SS as long as the team do better than last year.

Ah, I see

So you haven't actually read the article yourself then ?

No, it's just the BSF branch of the Plain English Society dangling some bait for a wayward whoosh victim on a closed season slow news day. TWK will be back soon . He just having a few days away at the Cheatford Muddlo Country and Western Festival. Now if it's alright with you, we'll get back to the thread and you can get back to the kitchen. Yes I saw the post but that is not quite the way SCB has summarised it. He claims Cook said fans are stupid for wanting to know about the heatleader list. That is not quite the way you have summarised it. That is why I queried whether he had actually read it.

Hang on is that really what Cook said, that they are stupid for wanting to know about the heatleader list ? Because that is not quite the way it has been summarised on here so far . Have you actually read the article yourself ? If so, please give us a summary of what it says on your reading of it .

Not trying to deflect the issue at all. Sidney was the one that noted the point first and he is no Cook lover. Criticise Cook as much as you like but you are the one that lectures the forum endlessly on the merits of intelligent debate as opposed to name calling and now you seem to be endorsing a slang term of abuse that relates to disability . As I have already said I haven't read the full article yet so I don't have an opinion on it.

Here you are, a medical term now used as a term of abuse. Liam and I didn't use the word as a term of abuse, you did. remeber :- http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/retarded And another one:- http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/retarded

As I said I won't see SS until tomorrow and will look at the context of the remark then. It wouldn't be the first time that the accracy of SS reports has been questioned on here, but that doesn't mean that the report in question is necessarily right or wrong, but if you look at Grachans post in context I do think he was right to raise an eyebrow. Exactly. That is the point SCB chooses to ignore.

Not often I agree with Sidney, and even less with Starman but thinking about it they have IMO made a point. Without wishing to get on a moral high horse mental illness is not a laughing matter. To be mentally retarded refers to a specific medical condition of intellectual impairment. Those afflicted by it can't help it. It is not the same as calling someone stupid. You can do better than that . There is a separate heatleader list thread where the matter could be properly aired intelligently instead of using that sort of term. I am not going to bang on about it but it woukd be a good idea IMO is you deleted this thread and continued the discussion in a more appropriate way on the heatleader list thread.

Fair post Pity you are a Poole fan. I could warm to you otherwise

I haven't seen Speedwáy a Star yet either, and won't see it until tomorrow so I might comment then. In the meantime the following points can be made without seeing the article :- 1. Speedwáy Star has something of a track record of publishing misleading/ half baked information so you raise a good point in questioning the accuracy of the report. 2. Jon Cook is a disastrous PR man. I was listening to him on BBC Essex talking about the signing of Bjarne Pedersen and it was so full of word whiskers (um, ar, you know etc) and jumbled sentences it was virtually incoherent. He is not alone in coming across in that way on radio, of course but when it's a live broadcast it seems common sense to have a few prepared notes as a prompt to get the information out in a coherent way. Anyone not familiar with Speedwáy probably didn't understand what he was talking about. 3. Majority of fans have some degree of bias (including me) as do most fans of competitive sport. 4. I don't know about Speedwáy fans as a whole but the posts on this forum indicate that there are plenty of thick ones around . 5. I don't think Jon Cook is a retard. On SCB's assessment I suppose that makes me thick. My take on on it is that he sometimes speaks before his brain is in gear, and that SCB is given to hyperbole, but like Jon Cook he knows his stuff in some areas but over eggs the pudding when he goes into print. 6. There is an enormous amount of pomposity by some posters on this thread.

Kelvin on BBC Essex http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03c4f06

Isn't he just TM though, or does he have a separate coaching role ? It seems that Kelvins role is with the youngsters on the training school right through to first team.

Formerly rode for Hackney Hawks and Eastbourne Eagles I believe.

Is there any news about young Kenny yet ? I have heard rumours floating around that he has been talking to other clubs but nothing confirmed yet. The fact that Troy , Mads and Lambert have been announced hardly suggests that Mr Bjerre is flavour of the Month at Chapman Towers, but it's difficult to ignore his bargain average. Any hints from Norfolk Town. ?

Great couple of posts from someone who has just been on the Coventry thread with nothing constructive to say except telling someone he hopes they get banned ! ! Oh the irony. Glass houses , stones and all,that.

e You haven't done anything to offend me. I think your heart is in the place so far as your passion for the sport is concerned, but long before this thread others have commented on your posts which putting it as politely as I can lose the plot a bit by going OTT on the hyperbole. I don't think I can add anything I have not already said but sometimes it a good idea to be a bit more measured in your expressions otherwise the point you are trying to make doesn't come across. Try taking a leaf out if Gordon Bennets book, his posts are more moderate, well thought out and less of a rant.

I am pretty much in your camp on that . But the point I was making, if you look at the context, is not a question whether it should be averages or grades of rider control committees or any other single thing. It was in response to GRW 123 's sweeping generalisation that team equality governed by points per team has always been seen as a fair and acceptable way of doing things, but it clearly hasn't. Some people think it is but others clearly don't. That is the point. There is a divergence of views on all aspects. For example Bwitcher says that a heatleader list is necessary but they went about it the wrong way. Others are saying there was no need for a heatleader list and others are raising the old chestnut about the independent body. If someone wants to put forward the view that the system is a shambles, fair enough but that's no good if they can't put forward a coherent case for something that most others do along with. Personally, I think there is no absolute right and wrong in these things , the most important thing is whatever system you have, you also have to have the will and business acumen to make it work and it is on that later point that the BSPA fail, rather than the systems themselves. FWIW I think your suggestion for the basis of the HL list is a good one, but there are others that would suffice if organised properly. I think the point Skidder was making, if I understood it correctly is that we have been presented with this HL list without really understanding what reasoning, rationale, or criteria they applied. The final thing which I must admit I haven't got my mind round yet is what is the net result of the list. I take Bwitchers point that they seem to have more by luck than judgment got a reasonable list and without trawling back over the whole thread the only queries seem to relate to Watt , Buckowski and possibly Kennet but I am not sure that at the end of the day that will make a massive difference. Correct me if I am wrong because si am struggling with it a bit and others seem to be as well.

GRW 123 I can't quote the section of the post I want to quote because of the way you have done the reply, but you have gone off at a tangent again. You have talked about my and Skidders ideas but I haven't expressed any ideas. I have merely commented on a few things. I said Skidder has a point, I didn't say he is 100%correct. It seems that he , like me , his simply trying to assess the situation. If you bother to read my post properly I said there have been some good posts on the thread with DIFFERENT points of view. That's what is generally known as debate. The fact that there are different points of view, in some cases soundly put, indicates that it is not a clear cut matter. I like to look at each side of the argument. Unfortunately there are quite a few that are unable to put the argument coherently and it turns into the same old same old let's slag off the BSPA rhetoric that has all been done before. By going into meltdown all you do is turn people off the point you are trying to make, as others, including KL fans have said in the past. As to whether Skidder can be dispassionate, far be it from me to defend a Poolite but it's a subjective test and personally I find that apart from his obvious tongue in cheek remarks he is usually not too far off the mark for a South Coaster, to be honest.

No good having Richard Lawson if Glasgow switch race nights to Friday. We'll have to wait and see on that point. I very much doubt it would be PK who apparently doesn't come cheap. If Awesome doesn't come though, the options do appear to be limited.

Fair and acceptable way ? We have seen endless arguments on this forum about teams- usually Poole- getting riders on false averages. An argument that raised its head on a fairly regular basis is that there should be some sort of grading system because working purely on averages doesn't work. There are plenty of forum members that don't think it is it is a fair and acceptable way. There is a wide division of opinion on the point. Personally I think Skidder has a point. The problem with this sort of thread is that they always get hi-jacked by the usual suspects, led by yourself, that are always going to scream blue murder at anything the BSPA do, for better or worse. There have been some good posts on the thread with different points of view but the majority are incapable of judging the situation dispassionately. The bottom line is that once you have an EDR system you are going to need some protected heats, and once you have protected heats you will have skewed averages, and once you have skewed averages you need some method of dealing with them, and that in turn is going to lead to some nuances or border line cases. That is the real world. When we look at the teams that have been put together so far it seems to be the opinion of most posters that Poole and Belle Vue have strong looking sides and the rest are much of a muchness, or to put it another way round it is , broadly speaking a competitive league on paper. it's not going to be the end of the Elite League as we know it ( although other factors might cause that ) , but try taking a measured, dispassionate view, which is what Skidder is trying to do rather than going into melt down at the mere mention of the BSPA.

My match reports for Neasden F.C. in the Harlesden Recorder are always well received. Nothing wrong with Bad Manners when Buster Bloodvessel was with them. And it's E. I. Addio you.

The only issues that me and the people like me is whe n you and Red Panda make bald statements that fly in the face of common sense then can't back them up when challenged, even to the exrtent of implying Chris Holder is a liar when he talks about who he will or will not ride for.

I have never said I don't spout rubbish at times and when I do I get shot down, like everybody else. That's not the same as what you are doing here though which is making a statement about Chris Holder that has absolutely no factual or evidential basis whatsoever, which implies that either Holder is lying or Speedway Star are twisting the truth and printing the opposite of what he said. You didn't present that as an opinion you presented it as fact. Just as you said other promoters just sit back and wait for the fans to come to them, another statement that you couldn't, and still cant back up when asked. Opinions are one thing but I cant think of another poster on the forum, apart from Starman that consistently makes bald statements with no factual basis whatsoever. Take a deep breath and look at some of the unsubstantiated stuff you have posted, which is even making other Poole fans cringe