E I Addio

This is a great thread. There is nothing like talking about Speedwáy with fellow fans who have the same affinity for the sport, and the fact that the rest of the world think we are completely bonkers makes it even more special. There is something unique about the spectacle of the sport that doesn't seem to exist in other sports. The very idea of riders being identified in red, blue white and yellow has some sort of magnetism to me. Then riders being numbered 1-7, then being designated heatleaders, second strings and reserves, somehow adds to the drama, with red and blue the heroes and white and yellow the villains. I suppose all those details plus the idea of filling the programme in progressively does give a sort of trainspotter or anorak quality but there's nothing wrong with that. As others have said, the fans are special. I love the fact you can walk round and see people you have seen for years and just nod or have a word with them even though you don't really know them and I love getting peoples opinions before the start on how they think the match will turn out. We all have a laugh about old Sid and Doris sitting in their fold up chairs with their flask of tea and sandwiches but they are the salt of the earth types and I love chatting to them as most have been going for years and are often very knowlegdeable. I suppose most of all I think I love that moment of tension between the riders coming under starters orders and the tapes going up. Even after about 150 years of going to Speedwáy that part still sends shivers down my spine. Very rare for me to go to a Speedwáy meeting and not enjoy it.

Wayne Briggs had never ridden in a Speedwáy meeting of any kind when at the age of 16 he was brought over and given a place in the Edinburgh team, on the strength of his brothers reputation. I dont think many got into a team literally within weeks but there were a fair number that were already experienced in grass track and adapted quickly, and a fair number that got into a lower league team not within a few weeks but certainly after winter at training at Rye House, say a few months. Like a lot of the past versus present arguments it is a bit futile because you cannot easily compare like with like but understanding modern bikes has a lot to do with it. Malcolm Simmons for example has said he started off using his grass track engine in his Speedwáy bike , which obviously woukd be impossible today. The problem for a lot of modern riders is understanding set ups, which was less important in the past. Many young riders have no idea how to set a bike up. I remember when Richie Worrall first rode at Lakeside as a fairly raw novice he couldn't get his bike to pull so Piotr Swiderski's mechanic set his bike up like Swidders bike and he was flying, and of course he has built in that since. I think something similar happened with Ben Morely in the first year of fast track. He wasn't up to speed on set ups so Lewis Bridgers mechanic set his bike up like Bridgers and he went out and beat Adam Skornicki. That was not necessary of course in Malcolm Simmons novice days.

Why would they be licking their wounds ? There apparent objection was upheld. As for being clear on the facts, it's really a matter of whether Fords little tirade in SS records ALL the facts and/or whether those facts recorded have Fords spin on them. Always the same problem with Speedwáy Star, they only ever record one side of the argument, not just in this matter but all the time. I have mentioned this on other occasions. We come back to the point that was mentioned earlier. According to Steve Shoveller Ford said in the programme he would have taken it further and would have won, but the question is where would had have taken it ? The meeting referee and the SCB had already over ruled him. There was no where else for him to go. What ever the rights or wrongs of the matter in issue, to say in the programme that he would have taken it further and would have won is utter bull, only to be believed by the blue tint faithful. Even Starman has now said earlier on this thread Ford got it wrong. I can't think of any other promoter that would make all this fuss over a settled issue. If he had said he was going to make sure the rules get clarified at the next AGM we coukd respect him for that.

Where exactly would he have taken it ? The rules only allow for an appeal against penalties enforced. You can't appeal against a penalty that wasn't enforced. It's like trying to appeal a parking fine you never had. Ford does come out with some drivel.

Judging by the Lakeside website it looks like he is riding at No5. but not totalling sure. Looks like Robbo will be at reserve but I can't see what rule allows him to ride as an EDR reserve. Can anyone clarify ?

Full squad. AJ, Kennet, Lawson, Bridger, Nilsson, Mear, Kerr. TBF, it is the result of rain offs, home and away. The Lakeside v Swnidon A fixture was rained off and iis now on in September,, but there are apparently no other available dates when Swindon can put out a full squad . Hence Lakeside had to go to Swindon on a re-arranged fixture without AJ and Kim after the original one was rained off and Swindon come to Lakeside with 3 riders already booked at Sommerset. Not satisfactory but will always occur while the domestic league plays second fiddle to the continental season.

I don't think anybody has mentioned Ronnie Moore yet. I only saw Ronnie at the back end of his career when he was past his best but still an absolutely sensational rider. He has been described as the most naturally talented rider ever to sit on a Speedwáy bike and qualifying for his first World Final at the age of 17 bears that out. I have heard of fantastic rides at Wimbledon and he seems to have been a model of consistency which would stand him in good stead in a GP system where not just wins but 2nd and 3rd places are important. Of course he missed the 1957 season when he tried car racing, and had that broken leg in '63 which brought about an early retirement before his comeback 6 years later, but potentially he could have been a multi-GP winner by reason of his consistency, and his attitude of taking every race as it comes whether it be a World Final or second half. Who knows ? I admit to bias because the two great riders that stand out in my memory are Ronnie and Briggo

I don't know what to say about this one. I have said many times on here that you nearly always get entertaining Speedwáy when Wolves are at Lakeside but it just didn't happen for them tonight. If the top end had shown the spirit of Max Clegg it would likely have been a great match but the higher up the order you look the more lacklustre they seemed. It was clear from heat 1 the spark wasn't there. The root of the problem seems to be with Lindgren. Now I like Freddie, he is a nice bloke and a class rider but he reall y wasn't with it tonight. This is a rider who was virtually unbeatable at Lakeside until the recent past, yet not only was he beaten by Lewis Kerr, he came out on a t/r and was not only passed by Nilsson but he was trailing him by half the length of the straight by the end of the race. In heat 13 he wasn't even on the pace, miles behind. Worse than that, he was constantly on the wrong line, stuck in no mans land.,This is not the Fast Freddie of old. He somehow doesn't seem to have the old hunger any more. PK still looks class on the bike but he has nothing left to prove and understandably he is not going to bust a gut at this stage of his career. It really says it all though when Wolves are putting a reserve out in heat 15. Finally Kim Nilsson. Since joining Lakeside from Newport 6 years ago he has progressed slowly, inch by inch, race by race, from reserve to second string to heatleader. His first paid 18 was notable not only because it was his first but because he pulled out a reall class performance as Tony Ellis has said. He rode with the sort of confident, flawless, immaculate professionalism one would normally associate with someone like Leigh Adams. A great effort.

So, Lawsons rides to be taken by Kim, Ed, Lewis, who can all do the same sort of job but his other ride to be taken by a reserve which will be a lot weaker. Hope Ed's ear infection is full recovered and his balance is not affected. Wolves don't really miss out by having R/R for Masters because he was all over the place last time. A lot depends on Rory guesting for Kylmakorpi. Joonas has usually managed to pull off at least one or two race wins in most of his visits over the last few years. Rory likes the track and is more than capable of doing as well if not better than Kylmo, but having said that, his form at Lakeside in the last couple of years is not what it used to be 4 or 5 years ago. Hammers should have enough in the tank to get home, but Wolves are always a tough nut to crack at Lakeside and can't be written off by any means. A Wolves win is a realistic possibility although the odds are probably against it.

Lawson and Nilsson are on exactly the same average. Does this mean Lawsons rides are taken by Nilsson and those lower or can AJ take a ride ? Wolves look weak on paper but they are not top of the league for nothing and are nearly always formidable at Lakeside especially when Freddie is on form so coukd be a tough one. Rory has always been popular at Lakeside and is assured of a warm reception from the fans, but whether he has fully recovered from his early season injuries remains to be seen. Good to see him back though. Fred, Rory and PK, three of my favourite riders, and I was impressed by Max Clegg on his last visit so looking forward to this.

Oh, so it's all Sky's fault now is it ? What a load of old tosh. If you bothered to check the Poole website before posting such twaddle you woukd see that the change was nothing to do with Sky. According to the Poole website it was originally fixed for Monday 11th July to avoid a clash with a Danish League fixture " which no longer exists", so it was then switched to Wednesday 13th July. Anyway whatever the reason for the change of dates the fact remains that Poole were not entitled to a facility for Ellis. Now, for the second time it was not a last minute complaint . The online report in the Bournemouth Echo confirms Ford eventually conceded the point 5 hours before the start and it had been disputed a long time before that, so it was in no way a "last minute" thing as you claim. Enforcing the rules is not exploiting a situation. If Ford got his act together properly none of this would have happened. Stop digging . You are getting like Starman.

Since when did two wrongs make a right ? Belle Vue did wrong, the forum went into meltdown, the SCB took decisive action and issued a hefty fine, the promotion admitted they did wrong and now that's over and done with. The question now is whether the SCB will take decisive action as they did with Belle Vue and fine Poole for fielding a six man team, contrary to the rules or will it be kicked into the long grass and forgotten ? That's not anti-Poole bias it's treating two clubs impartially .

..and once again makes a fool of himself by getting his facts wrong. No reason why Ford should have tried to cheat in the first place.

Last minute ? The report in the local rag says that Ford " finally conceded defeat at 2.40 pm",nearly 5 hours before the start and there had been a lot of to-ing and fro-ing before that so clearly Ford had been trying to get away with it for a long time before that. He was hardly taken by surprise by it all . No way Ford would have given in if he thought he was in the right. He tried to pull a fast one and didn't have a plan B ready when he got caught out.

Dyslexia is a reading difficulty not an intelligence difficulty. Some of the most successful authors ever, from Jules Verne to Agatha Christie suffered from dyslexia, but it didn't stop them writing classic books that reached wide audiences. Tai used an expletive because that's the way he speaks, that's all there is to it. Some people find it unnecessary others are happy with expletives but it's ridiculous to try to explain it as some kind of social change or set out what's right or wrong .

Don't know where you get that idea from. Words have a certain meaning attached to them and by and large society couldn't function if most people didn't use words according to their proper meaning. Of course, there is a certain constituency who are content to live in the world of gobbledegook where wicked now means good, gay no longer means cheerful and colourful, must have is now spelt "must of" , and "awesome " is used with such frequency that it now seems to mean pretty average and the there is apparently no word now that means awesome in the exceptional way it was originally used. Words accurately used are the basis of our legal system, contracts, insurance, science, medicine and basic communication.The divorce courts are full of people who have chosen not to learn to express themselves properly and start swearing at each other instead. 75% of the prison population (i.e. mostly petty criminals) have never bothered to learn to read and write, thus cannot express themselves properly and have become unemployable. Most of us have been born into the richest laguage in the world, which is why it is spoken the world over . It is the international language of air traffic control for a good reason. If your choice in life is not to use words with there proper meaning then you are missing so much as your daughter will be if she is directed to slovenly speech. Tai used a commonly used expletive that many people of limited vocabulary use instead of proper adjectives. That's all there is to it. Analysing and trying to suggest there is some great shift in society and that words are somehow not as important as they used to be is nonsense. Words basically mean the same as they always meant, but as always, a certain section of the population choose not to learn them or use them properly.

1. That's a bit rich considering the number of threads you have started moaning about the sport and complaining that flings ain't wot like they used to be in the good old days. 2. If you are offended by the people complaining it's probably best if you don't read the thread. How many Speedwáy GP's have there been and how many of the previous winners have found it necessary to use the F-Word when interviewed in front of the crowd afterwards ? Its not the end of the world, just a shame he couldn't come across as a bit more articulate on that particular occasion. Shouldn't disqualify him from riding for Team GB though.

Not sure what that's got to do with the discussion. Drink and drugs have been a part of music for even longer but when a certain team manager tried to justify one of his riders drug taking on the basis that "It's what young people do" almost the entire forum thought he made a complete idiot of himself. When the same rider was caught over the alcohol limit before a GP he got a ban for it and it was no defence to say drugs are part of music. Young people are almost always crass, it goes with the territory of adolescence. Doesn't mean adults have to be.

No, I didn't say it was Tai's fault , just correcting your incorrect statement.

Not only in this country. This country struggles more than the other mainstream Speedwáy nations, but everything in the Speedwáy garden is not always rosey. There are plenty of riders in Poland in particular that are not being paid or having pay cuts forced on them, and haven't a couple of Polish clubs gone bankrupt in the last few years ?

I struggle to think of any that use extreme expletives when they are in a direct interview, especially when it is at one of the Blue Riband events of his or her sport. No doubt someone will say it has happened, but it's certainly not commonplace. It's a shame it happened at an event when Speedwáy would be being viewed by casual viewers than probably any other Speedwáy broadcast this year.

Agreed. All the promoters see is a stronger team. If a foreign rider of Pedersen's calibre can't stay out of reserve he shouldn't be foisted on the fans in the Elite League. A 37- year old has been, well past his sell by date, in a reserve slot intended for the development of young British riders is not what the fans pay to see. It makes a total mockery of the league as a serious competition. The fans are being taken for fools and an increasing number are not standing for it, as falling attendances show. Yes, needs to be sorted in the winter but whether there will be enough fans left by next year to sustain a realistic level of top league racing remains to be seen.

They always are. However good the TV production is, it cannot convey the atmosphere, the smell, the speed, and to some extent the tension. That's why it's irritating when we get the couch potatoes on here the day after a TVmeeting telling us how poor it was, track was rubbish and all the rest of it. Speedwáy is a live sport and unfortunately doesn't convert that well to TV, in fact most motor sports are nowhere near as good on TV as they are live.

I think we are getting off the point and into speculation now. There is absolutely no dispute about the fact that a patched up team of guests is not going to bring the punters in. Finding a way round the problem is the hard part. The starting point is why we're Poole five riders short? One was injured and you can't help that, but the rest were riding abroad and therein lies the problem. British Speedwáy his so heavily dependent on foreign riders that some teams would almost cease to exist without them . That is problem that has snowballed over the years and some promoters have found it too easy to bring ready made foreign riders in and ignored the development of home riders, but that is the problem the sport now faces. The other part of the problem is that continental fixtures take precedence so much more than in the past. Bjarne Pedersen was clear enough when he stated in Speedwáy Star that he was giving priority to British Speedwáy at a time when he wanted a job but then continental bookings rolled in and he changed his mind. Buckowski decided he would rather ride in a re-arranged Polish meeting than to ride for his British club, and do it goes on. So we are faced with a problem not of Pooles making , not of Lakeside's making but because certain riders feel it more important , for whatever reason to ride in Contintal meetings that only arose after this fixture was made. Nevertheless in some fans minds the riders are beyond criticism and its the fault of the clubs concerned. You ask how we have sunk so low as to have 5 riders short but that is the reason why. Does anybody seriously think Matt Ford deliberately set out to come with five riders missing or Jon Cook thought it would be a good idea if Lakeside lost half the expected gate money ? Unless and until there is some coordination in fixtures Europe wide or clubs make it clear that if riders want a GB job there yes must mean yes not maybe things don't change. BTW, BCD' s criticisms go beyond the way the sport is run. There are all kinds of snipes against certain riders, snipes against some promoters based on fiction rather than fact, and of course his endless vendetta against all things Lakeside, especially the track, which is what it is and nobody forces him to watch but plenty of other neutrals have spoken well of the racing there in recent years, but that doesn't stop him bleating on. BTW , I am not a Jon Cook sycophant. There is a lot of faults I could spell out but I don't see the point of doing it on here, and, unlike some, I do try to do my best to be fair .

Someone else who can tell the size of the crowd without even being there. I don't know how people do it. Nearly is good as Briggo managing to calculate the height of a dirt deflector from his TV screen. As a matter of interest how big was the crowd, and how big was the next biggest EL meeting.