E I Addio

I repeat yet again, for the blinkered. I didn't say Hitchens was right or wrong. I said it was food for though. Some of us like to take in a wider viewpoint than others. I agree it's strange, that all this happens after the Brexit vote , and that substantially weakens the credibilty of the article which is why I said I didn't think he was either 100% right or 100% wrong. I daresay the truth lies somewhere in the middle. As I said. I have heard other economic commentators, make similar comments on the lines that the banks etc are a big part of the underlying problem, notably Davd Buick of Panmuir Gordon,who doesn't withe in newspapers for a particular audience, Mybe you feel those points of view are nor worth considering and banks and hedgfund, managers have been a shining example of good financial conduct in the last 15 years and have absolutely nothing to do with the overall serious financial crisis. Many would disagree..

1. My first question was whether you agree that the country has massive state and personal debt, and a disastrous balance of payments situation. I am interested to find out why you think that is a lie. I don't think I have heard anyone say otherwise so maybe you have some information that the rest of us don't have. 2. The Bank of England makes the technical decisions about QE and physically gives the instructions but it's Osborne, and Brown before him that had overall responsibility for the economy and are deemed to approve the BoE's actions. However it is Peter Hitchens article in the Mail that we are scrutinising and if you read it he says that the BoE pumped the £435 billion into the economy. So let's re-phrase the question : is Hitchens lying about the QE pumped into the economy or are you saying it didn't happen. 3. Peter Hitchens is a right wing journalist who writes from a right wing perspective. That doesn't make him a liar. I doubt if he sat there and made the whole thing up. In my post I didn't say the whole thing was gospel, but I simply said it was food for thought. You seem to be saying that the mere fact it is in the Daily Mail makes it untrue, and I am not sure why anyone who has actually read the article would say that.

No, if you read it instead of dismissing it out of hand you will see armieg has not found a lie in the article. It may be the Daily Mail, but Peter Hitchens is a leading journalist who is better informed than most, and who doesn't only write for the Mail . Like all of them he tries to be a bit controversial to sell papers, but that doesn't mean there is never food for thought in what he says. The wider point being made is that we have a very serious economic situation and for years successive governments, Labour, Coalition and Tory have been papering over the cracks, leaving it wide open to speculators. I doubt Peter Hitchens is 100% right when he says the state of the pound is nothing to do with Brexit but I doubt he is 100% wrong either. A lot pretty good financial commentators have been saying similar things. Instead of just dismissing it out of hand and taking Steve Shovlars view that it its all due to the fishwives of Hartlepool or HA's view that it's all the fault of a stupid working class that are too dim to understand it, people ought to look more closely at what's going on with the banks, hedge funds, and speculators that first Gordon Brown and then George Osborne have been pandering to for years.

Are you saying it is untrue that the country has massive state and personal debts and a disastrous balance of payments ? Are you saying it is untrue that Osborne pumped over £400 billion of funny money into the economy ?

I don't know . How many wealthy farmers are there compared to electricians ?

When I say nutcase I mean people who haven't thought things through and get out out of their depth very quickly. I think Orlovs analogy with the X Factor is a good one. It not like sitting in a pub where you put your views and I put mine and maybe look for common ground. A lot if these talk show hosts just like to wind people up to make fools of themselves because ultimately it's what audiences like, and it gives me a chuckle at times, but when the boot is on the other foot and the presenter is on dodgy ground he just shut the discussion down and takes the next call. I have heard James O Brien do that several times. Not saying you don't get good calls at times, especially in the early morning but it's not fair to say that a bloke who gets caught out is typical of Brexit voters because it happens all the time on all sorts of subjects. Capitol Gold is much better radio station, they play ten hits in a row with no talking in between. My idea idea of good listening !

No, it sums up a lot of the type of people that phone radio stations. Most of the time the producers only let the nutcases through the net because that's what makes entertainment. I tend to listen to LBC early most days . I think you get a pretty good overview of what's happening in the world up till about 8 o'clock then you get more and more nutcases phoning in as those with any brains have work to as the morning wears on.

That really seems to be the nub of the issue in many peoples minds. So much of it is in desperate need of reform but the vested interests and those on the gravy train have set their faces like flint against any sort of change that encroaches on their personal status and influence. They are so dumb and out of touch that they could not they could not see that even a few minor concessions woukd have almost certainly been enough to swing the referendum in favour of the remainers. Instead of blaming the fishwives of Hartlepool the anger of the remainers should be aimed at the elite of Brussels and Strasbourg Would that include the Tories led by Blair and Brown ? You remember, the ones who had hedge fund managers paying less tax than their office cleaners. The onee that were quite happy to send expendable soldiers to their deaths in Iraq for want of spending enough money on protective equipment. The ones that tried to cover holes in the economy by selling off the gold at rock bottom prices. The one that promised British jobs for British workers and didn't deliver. Funny how people's memories play about when politics are involved. Whatever happened to humanity? Try looking on the doormat of the House of Commons, the European Parliament, or United Nations. You might find someone wiping their feet on it

I make you basically right on that, but as you correctly said about Margaret Thatcher, whether people think she was good or bad depends on what side of the fence you were on . The same will probably apply to Brexit. Some will probably benefit , others won't. The other thing is that there are all kinds of other world events that come into play that are not forseeable now, and that can have a massive bearing on things. Elections in America , Germany and France can be massive game changers, as can the economy. People can speculate on these things but none of them can foresee the future. Steve, you remind me of Mark Twains famous comment " I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened " We aren't even out of Europe yet, no point in worrying. The vote has happened, nothing you can do about it, just roll with the punches, play all your hunches and just keep ploughing on. You might be surprised. It's only money anyway. As long as you've got your health you have the most important thing .

I can't remember the Royal Family telling me what to. Only the law makers have done that . Personally , I don't see what the Royal Family have to do with the discussion. I agree that there is no logic in them having their position buy birthright, and I am nor a royal flag waver, but basically they don't encroach on my life. I can see the argument for replacing them but I am not sure the alternative is any better, especially if you consider for example the case of Baroness Ashton, never been I elected to anything in here life and on the strength of being a mate of Blair, she gets parachuted into the jod of EU Comissioner with the power to influence people far more than the Royal Family. Personally I think it's people like her, Kinnock and Mandelsson on the EU gravy train that turn people against it far more than immigration.

The House of Lords doesn't actually make any laws. It's nothing like the EU parliament at all. The Royal Family don't make laws either.

I think Robert Watson-Watt, Sidney Cam, R J Mitchell and Hugh Dowding plus a few others had something to do with all that. Eastern Europes done things for us and we've done things for them (including 1939). No reason why they shouldn't come here if they have a job to go to and a place to live. Whether it means their politicians that their politicians, amongst others, should be EU Commisioners etc directing how the UK should run its affairs is what the referendum was really about

Yeah, of course they are . No doubt about it. Even went to war in 1939 because they didnt want those stinking Germans over here running the show. Bloody racists. Or, to put it another way round, it's amazing how people always play the race card when all else fails. Except that most of Northern Europe is all the same race anyway. You wouldn't know where most Europeans originate from until they open their mouths. Drifterent nationalities, same race. Therefore, not racists.

As a neutral and no particular fan of Tai, I think a lot of different things are getting tangled up here. I don't really see how Tai has a particular obligation to ride in UK Speedwáy. He is a professional in a career that could come brutally to an end at very short notice, and if his best income is from abroad, so be it, just as is the case for any other sportsman, musician, tradesman or businessman. We don't know why he won't ride for GB but we doknow the BSPA have an abysmal record of paying riders late and so little they are out of pocket. It's not Tai's fault the rules allowed him to be drafted in to the Wolves team on a ridiculous average. I find it rather distasteful that it happened but Tai was only a pawn in that game. It's not for him to decide what's right or wrong in that respect. He got a job offer that suited him and he took it. I do however think he does himself no credit with his public pronouncements and the language that he uses. Nicki Pedersen has the personality to take on the pantomime villain role and get away with it. Few others can. Tai is not particularly articulate with his adjectives and to my mind shows himself up. He could and say the same things far more low key and far more effectively . He almost invites slanging matches. To illustrate, look at the thread about Peter Karlsson. Everybody he agrees he is a great rider and a great bloke. With Tai, the plaudits are likely to be limited to great rider. He has neither the personality nor the vocabulary to be impressive in his public staements, but he could still be a great champion all round by conducting himself with a bit more decorum, a bit more like PK. Bottom line I suppose is that those fans who were winding Tai up were paying £19+ to do so, and in effect paying his wages. The same can't be said for the BV announcer though who really needs to sacking.

Especially if you couldn't attend because you were banned from the stadium. Neverseenthatbefor.

A good start would be the BSPA actually understanding the rules they pass instead of coming back afterwards, as some did this year saying they didn't understand the heatleader list, or getting halfway through the season and saying they got the EDR set up wrong. Edited for accuracy !

What can I say that hasn't already been said ? The way he is respected and admired across the whole Speedwáy spectrum says it all. Few riders have achieved such admiration. The way he has conducted himself would make him admired in any sport. But behind that modest exterior , which was more like an insurance clerk than a Speedwáy rider was a competitor as hard as nails, as we saw time and again in his 3 years at Lakeside. Some of my outstanding memories in the whole of my time following Speedwáy was the 2013 season when it seemed that almost every match was going down to heat 15 and it was down to PK and Dave Watt to go go out and seal the deal which they did everytime with what seemed like an almost telepathic understanding of each other.Even when Wolves were in town PK was still a Lakeside man at the time and took great delight in putting one across Freddie Lindgren, who I don't think, from memory ever beat PK at Lakeside. Thanks for some brilliant memories Top Man, a credit to the sport.

d It's all very subjective, but I agree that Kennett should go in there. He came to Lakeside 2 seasons ago with confidence almost at rock bottom but his confidence in his sweeps round the fence has been remarkable. His race with Doyle in the Lakeside -v-Swindon A fixture was , for me , probably the Race of the season.

Flange and Stevebrum have made up again now. Steve gave Fred some Groupon vouchers for a weekend break at Hotel Dignitas.

Perhaps in a less vituperative and more objective manner than Fred. The fact is, 8 teams start the competition, 7 will lose somewhere along the way. Everyone knows what they face when they start. Virtually every track in the country has its good and bad meetings. It's in the nature of the sport. The trick track slur doesn't wash. Peter Karlsson at his peak was brilliant there as were others. There fact that a team turn up with riders that can't ride it doesn't diminish the track. In any sport, there are ups and downs, decisions that go for and against you, but there comes a time when I you just have shake hands, s ay well done to your opponent, stop the excuses and move on, otherwise it diminishes the ethos of sport. Unfortunately the BSF seems to attract a fair number that have probably never done any serious sport and apart from tapping their keyboards and have no idea how tough it is to perform some days. Constructive discussion is fair enough but sometimes a bit of sportsmanship wouldn't go amiss. "Well done " and "Congratulations " are not difficult things to say. ,

Oh dear, sounds like the spineless wonder can't handle the fact that his side got a tonking. Blame the track instead of the riders.

Once again the Misanthropic Misfit returns to try to spoil a perfectly enjoyable thread, venting his spleen with personal bile better confined to pm's because nobody else is interested. Maybe he has eaten too many sour grapes. Well Done Wolves, commiserations to Belle Vue. Sport is all about winners and losers. A pity someone has to come this far to collapse at (almost) the final hurdle but that's what makes it interesting.

When the BSPA held a fans forum earlier this year, a mere 50'or so turned up. That just about shows how much the moaners are really interested when it comes down to leaving their keyboards. You really believe a mass demo woukd happen ? A lot of speedways problems are very little to do with the AGM itself, they are more to do with failure to properly implement whatever rules are made, and back door rule changes half way through the season, of which the signing of Lindback on a 7 is a prime example.

As we are still in the EU I am not sure of the legality of enforcing this sort of rule (restraint of trade, free movement of labour and all the rest if it ). I suppose though they could say to the riders we will only give you a contract if you are available to us for x amount if time, which would be fair enough. The problem is their clubs are far more cut throat in self interest than the BSPA are, so if for example one club said to Doyle you can only sign for us if you only ride in two leagues, someone else needing a top heatleader might well say, come to us Jason mate and we'll let you ride in Sweden and GB

Give him a break. He is still trying to work out why Jerran Hart still hasn't been released.