E I Addio

The last straw for me. Almost every fan you speak to over the last couple of years has been saying Jon Cook is losing the plot. This just about confirms he has lost it. A great signing in the eyes of the attention seeking Gustix who never actuall pays to go through the turnstiles, but a 40 year old gating tart in decline is not going to provide the excitement that makes people part with their cash. Rye House it is for me then, and it seems for a fair number of others as well

Refer to the O.P. Men like Alan Hunt, Mike Broadbanks, Brian Crutcher, and Treveor Hedge were mentioned as examples. That sets the pattern for the thread.

But if a bloke has been riding 20 years and is not only still in the bottom league but on the way down as well, (as in the case of Davd Mason ) it's difficult to see what he can offer, and more importantly how many punters he is likely to pull through the turnstiles.

Would that be something to do with a certain race win at West Ham circa 1967 ? Jackie Biggs. So close to being World Champion in 1951 but nerves got to him, continued riding for another 20 years before being killed in a tragic track crash due to machine failure, at an age when most riders have retired. Never saw him ride myself , but by all accounts a thoroughly nice bloke who always had time for the fans. Wayne Briggs. Speedwáy gave his brother Barry fame and fortune but all it gave Wayne was injury after injury. Norman Hunter. On the cusp of a great international career when that terrible hand injury reduced him to a second string but he still carried on riding, Adam Shields. After he won the Div 2 Riders Chmapionship ( or whatever it was called back then ) had was being spoken of as the next Jason Crump, but like Wayne Briggs , each time he started to get into his stride another injury cut him down. Adam was another one that Speedwáy took a lot from but gave very little back. Adam Skornicki, Stuart Robson, and Kauko Nieminen, never quite made it to the big time but totally loyal to the sport and thoroughly, thoroughly nice guys who always gave 100%

I think you are right on that sid. I saw full face helmets for the first time at Brands Hatch about that time,then Briggo straight afterwards. I am sure he was the first Speedwáy rider to wear one. Correct me if I am wrong but I think he wore one of his own design, with the Briggo brand from the very beginning.

Gustix is entitled to his opinion just as he would be entitled to an opinion that that the earth is flat but it would still be a stupid opinion if he had no facts to back it up. He as put forward an opinion that because of the points averaged the NL is on a downward spiral. When asked to back up that opinion he can't. What is the point of expressing opinions on a DISCUSSION forum and not being prepared to discuss them. Not surprising he is viewed by many as as attention seeker when he continually posts such utter twaddle .

I know what you are saying. I agree he would put points on the board but every lap would be the same, round the white line on the bend, drift out to the fence on the straight to stop the outside run then back to the white line on the next bend. It is sooooo boring. Mason would be even worse. I just feel they need riders who are prepared to grab a handful of throttle and go for it even if they fall off in the process, as long as they gradually learn to stay on and improve over the season, which they should under Kelvins guidance..

Be patient. As soon as he finds an answer somewhere he will cut and paste it immediately!

I don't think it was ever out of the long grass, but if people are going to seriously talk about David Mason then Leigh Lanham is a far better bet, to do exactly the same sort of job only better ( that is better but stil boring). The punters are not going to come through the turnstiles to so some 40 year old, pop out the gate and trundle round the white line like a mobile road block. We need some young blood with the talent to improve not get worse. No more talk of David Mason please, don't even joke about it. Under 25's only.

I don't think you can say that about Knutsson. Lee and Carter were both a bit of a pickle with a prominent self destruct button. Penhall seems to have had bigger fish to fry but we still don't really know why Knutsson retired at such a young age. Rember it was an era when riders didn't earn the sort of money they earn now, and almost all had outside business interests until the late sixties. It has been suggested that Knutsson had a car dealership and I think. I have heard that as well. it might well be that if Knutsson could earn the sort of money that later generations were earning he might well have continued. What we can say is that from the age of 23 until the end of his career he was never ranked lower than 4th in the Speedwáy Star World Rankings and Ivan Mauger, only a year younger was never ranked higher either in the rankings or in any individual competition including the World Final until after Knutsson had retired. Of course, as has been mentioned a lot depends on what era you were riding in. I doubt that Ivan woukd have collected 6 world titles if his career had paralleled Briggs, Fundin, etc when they were at their leaks, and equally if Fundin was 6 or 7 years younger and riding through out the 70's I daresay he would have taken more than 5 titles, and almost certainly taken some that eventually went to Olsen, Mauger, etc,, possibly one might say the same thing about Ronnie Moore. All speculation of course but by all accounts Fundin in particular was something very, very, special. ...and Disraeli was sponsored by Lord Rothschild, which is even better than Monster Joe.

Absolutely. Kelvin needs to be where he was last season, watching every race from the outside then talking to the riders when they come in to go over the race with them, also building them up before they go out in their next race. One thing Kelvin said at the last fans forum was that even quite experienced riders will run a last place and come in saying "The bikes crap" but when you ask them what exactly is wrong with the bike they don't know. Similarly they might come in first and say the bike is running great but when you ask them what is so good about it they can't explain, so what Kelvin's job is, is to get the riders to think about their races and analyse whether it really is something right of wrong with the bike or whether it is something they are doing right or wrong on the track, as opposed to making the same mistakes over and over again and not realising why. Obviously with young riders on a steep learning curve the potential is there for talent to be brought out much more quickly with Kelvin adding his experience. If the riders are prepared to listen, and if they have the talent to put the lessons into practice there is scope for a much more accelerated development than would ordinarily be the case.

I am not saying he was either better or worse than Olsen, but looking back on Olsens record he was more inconsistent than a lot of the genuine greats like Fundin, Briggs and Mauger. I think Olsen was another one that suffered from nerves a bit, especially in the early years although he seems to have conquered them later on. All down to opinions of course. Still no answer to why Knutsson retired at such a young age though. Based on something he said in an interview I read years ago I think it might have been that he had had a good run free from injury ( only a broken arm in 10'years) , and decided he had won every honour the sport had to offer and decided to quit while he was still in good shape rather than tempting fate. I could be wrong but that was just my hunch. I wonder if Norbold can throw any light on this ?

To my mind one of speedways great mysteries is why Bjorn retired when he did, still under 30 years old and potentially with plenty of good years in him. U EHe was a few years younger than Briggs and Fundin, and within a year or do of Ivan Mauger, so one of speedways great "what ifs" is what could he have achieved if he had carried on? My guess is he would quite likely have taken one or two of the world titles that eventually went to Mauger, particularly some of the earlier ones, as Fundin and Briggs were starting to get past their best by then and Bjorn was probably the only rider in the world at that time capable of beating Mauger when the erratic and temperamental Olsen had not reached his peak. Knutsson was probably better than Olsen anyway. Any thoughts on the "what if" or why Bjorn retired so prematurely ?

Who wants a 40 year old second string that is not likely to increase his starting average ? As for consistency I pointed out in an earlier post that his most consistent position in 2016 was third,. He is not going to pull punters through the turnstiles at Lakeside

But that post highlights the problem. Contrary to what many on this forum claim, Speedwáy is very often done at least reasonably well when not ravaged by the weather, or teams packed with guests, both of which occur far less than some people claim, and have always been a problem to a greater or lesser degree even in the so called golden days. Tracks that put on a good show, Scunthorpe being one that everyone raves about, do not necessarily do any better or have significantly bigger crowds than those that don't produce the same spectacle. Therein lies the problem. Personally, given the amount of alternative and more readily available entertainment people have to choose from these days I think Speedwáy would be doing very well to put an average of 100 on every gate, and brilliantly to put 200 on every gate, but ironically such modest increases would probably make a massive difference to the finances of many clubs. The days of mega crowds are gone, however well Speedwáy presents itself. That is just the way of the world. There is no doubt though that the promoters internal bickering has not helped. I don't think they are all bad more a case of a few bad apples spooling the whole bunch.

Grass track racing is doing even worse than Speedwáy. I can remember the time when in Kent alone there woukd be at least one grass track almost every week sometimes two on the same day. It's in a very sorry state nationwide these days by comparison. Moto cross is just about keeping its head above water I think, but nothing like the spectacle it used to be. But it's not just motorcycling. In London alone there were over thirty dog tracks at one time now there is only one. Pubs have been closing down and turned into McDonalds for years, now even the McDonalds are closing down and being turned into Aldis and Lidl's, as people in general have changing habits Peoples homes are generally more comfortable than 40 years ago and of course have a massive level of so called "home entertainment" via TV and the Internet that makes a cheap night in more attractive than in the past. Basically, people in general have become a nation of couch potatoes. In short the reasons for the decline of Speedwáy are very complex, quite apart from its self inflicted wounds, and many of the reasons are beyond the sports control even though some are not.

I was jesting mate. Your knowledge is too comprehensive for you not to know what Fundin was like. A subtle but interesting difference between Fundin and Briggo it seems though. Briggo rode flat out because it's the only way he knew how to ride ( which he admits himself) Fundin rode through his even his team mates because he couldn't bear to cross the line in anything but first place. The three of them Moore , Fundin, and Briggo seem to have exceptional characters off the track as well as on it. We will,probably never see the like of them again, more's the pity.

He may be the highest scorer in third tier history but is that because he has spent longer there than most? Whatever the reason the fact remains that he is 40 years old and not going to get any better. According to the Kent Kings website, his average without BPs last year was under 6 per match, and he achieved 17 wins. , 31 second places, 49 thirds and 8 lasts. I don't want to knock the bloke but looking at it in hard facts what exactly does he have in his favour that would benefit Lakeside ?

If you are going to throw all of a riders qualities into the mix, not just titles won then Ronnie Moore must be near or at the top of the list.. I don't know too much about Ronnie as a person and only saw him at the back end of career ( when he was well past his best but still better than most ever get) but from all I have read and from Wimbledon fans I have spoken to who saw him at his peak he seems to have really been the complete package in all departments, If I could go back in time and see just one rider at his best I think it would have to be "Mirac". On the other hand ( and Norbold will hate me for saying this) if you are going to take into account qualities as a team man then Fundin would drop from possibly top of the list to, shall we say, a rather more lowly position. A very unique man and an exceptional Speedwáy rider with an unquenchable will to win but not one to bother about the niceties of team riding by all accounts !

£2 is not a bad price for a programme IMO . A lot of people prefer a programme to a race card. Reading the promoters notes, looking at averages and other information makes it more of an occasion than just a plain race card. On the question of admission costs we have to remember that 20% VAT is included so on admission of £10 the promoter gets about £8 which is quite unrealistic.

As they charge around £13 for a stock car meeting at Arena without having to pay the stocks drivers anything I think £13 must be about the rock bottom figure to put a spedway meeting on, although I agree that if it creeps up to the £15 mark it could be off-putting for some. Ultimately it's going to be a winning team of racers that keeps the crowds coming, assuming they are attracted in the first place after being used to the top league. It's a big gamble and I am still not sure if Cook has made the right decision, but it could take off and I hope it does. I think Kelvin will be a key factor. Lakeside are probably the only NL club with anyone as experienced as Kelvin closely involved with rider development and if his experience can be converted into ability by the riders there is scope for some of them to make a big Improvement. I haven't seen a lot of NL racing but from what I have seen some of them are incredibly naive on even some of the basics, which is perhaps understandable given their limited experience, but if they are prepared to listen to Kelvin and learn it will be a great opportunity to accelerate their careers.

I don't know why everyone keeps banging on about Leigh Lanham. The high water mark of his career was 2008 when he was paired with AJ but since then he has gone backwards at a rate of knots. A very nice bloke but these days a thoroughly boring rider. He has guested at Lakeside several times over recent seasons and did very little except ride exactly the same line in every race, unable to vary it to pass another rider. Sorry but he is just not going to pull any punters through the gate. It has to be young riders prepared to make up in enthusiasm what they lack in experience. That is what the NL should be about. Kelvin Tatum is there to provide the advice and support. It is riders young enough and enthusiastic enough to learn that are needed.

No thanks. Leigh is a really nice bloke , and a Hammers legend but he is nearly 40 years old and watching him is like going to a funeral these days. Young blood is needed.

Where does that information come from if clubs don't publish attendance figures ?

Credit where it is due: the quality of th production is good for the sort of magazine is, some of the articles in the close season are very good and in many ways it's a better read in the winter than in the summer, and the price is cheaper than most specialist magazines. It's actually not much dearer and much better value than a cup of coffee in Starbucks, especially on subscription so no complaints about the price as such BUT I cancelled my subscription some time ago and now just by it occasionally when there is something I particularly want to read. A lot of it seems to be hot air to fill the space. Others on the thread have already pointed out various shortcomings and apparent lack of clear editorial policy. Personally , I don't believe and never have believe that it is the propaganda arm of the BSPA, but it's easy to understand why others feel that way, with the lack of objective or constructive criticism. My real complaint is the lack of balance in a lot of the articles, some rider or promoter says something and no attempt to explain the opposite point of view. That to me is not journalism. I don't want to read pages and pages of windbaggery. A classic example, I. One of the last editions of SS I bought was Niel Middleditch banging on about poor refereeing but when one examined the example he cited they were not bad refereeing decisions at all they were either 50/50 calls that didn't go his way or they were decisions that were wrong from his line of vision but not necessarily from the refs box. To me, those sorts of one sided articles are a waste of space. Something with a big more insight is required. The price is not an issue for me but I can't be bothered to go out of my way to get it any more in its present form No cut and paste ? There is plenty in there that I have already read on clubs websites when SS arrives. In short, SS is like the sport itself. Both are potentially good products but need a long hard good look at themselves to see what can be done to up their game.