PE7Panther

being taken for a mug by whom? and how? re. zero income for a month: You talk as though there are enough meetings in a season to ensure that all clubs have at least one home fixture every week, and that they never have gaps. As today's date they have one more home fixture, and income generated from it, irrespective of what date it's it run. They might have another home meeting - IF they knock Panthers out. But that could well be another week or two, or even 3, with no home meeting and no income in the meantime. In the context of the argument about the 17th, your point about Sheff suffering financially if they'd had to put it back to the 24th is spurious. They get the income from the meeting either way. Anyway, it doesn't matter now. Panthers will have an almost full team with, hopefully a decent guest (Porsing?) for Ostergaard at No.1.

OMG... YES, they had (and still have) commitments. Nobody said they were RIDING on the 17th - just that they'd be unavailable on the 17th. And they were unavailable - until Ged twisted their arms and they agreed to change their travel & logistical plans which they'd already made for those commitments. It has cost somebody a chunk of money - and my guess is that Panthers have had to stump up money they can ill afford. Nobody seems bothered about that in their haste to make petty points about how Sheffield didn't want to have a blank Thursday for their fans. The way the PL play-offs look like dragging out, if Sheff manage knock Panthers out they'll have about a MONTH to wait for their next one!

Fans of ANY club would be unhappy if they heard that their team was being forced into a date they hadn't agreed to, and on which 3 of their key riders weren't going to be available. As it turns out.the problem has been solved by the 3 riders agreeing to change their plans. For the record, nobody ever said that they were RIDING elsewhere on the 17th; just that they were not available - which, having already made their travel and logistical plans, they weren't. Talking about it being simply down to them wanting "another day in bed" is unfair and rather childish - although it's typical of this forum. Surely we're all glad that Panthers will be able to field an almost full team now? Nobody likes to see teams comprising guests and R/R, either in your own team or the opposition. By the way, I'm just waiting for the outcry from Edinburgh if, as seems likely, the PL play-offs drag on deep into October and key riders are down under ....

So you don't think they ever look at riders' commitments in other countries? Are you sure?!!!!

of course they would know, eff-eff-ess! Anyway, problem solved now I'd been looking at the latest PL greensheets on the BSPA site - but I'd forgotten about Porsing. Hope he's available.

yeah.... funny how they didn't make one up, like they usually do. I know it has to be somebody from a team not involved in the play-offs... but who would fit? Hope it's not R/R, but then again, it will be all the sweeter if we get a good result without a guest.

Sheffield had EVERY Thursday listed on their fixture list - either with a meeting or as "reserved". There aren't enough fixtures in the season for them to have a home meeting on EVERY Thursday. So your point about going a couple of weeks with no meeting doesn't hold water. When you say "it's not fair" what do you mean exactly? It's not uncommon for speedway fans to have fragmented fixtures. The weather alone sees to that! Or are you suggesting that the crowd will be down because some Sheff fans will have lost interest in the play-offs by the 24th? What is unfair is the way Sheff have unilaterally picked the 17th knowing full well that Panthers would have key riders unavailable on that date. It's very naive to think that they didn't have that in their minds. Sheff didn't have to agree to that rearranged date - but they did agree. We're talking here about a date that Panthers have NOT agreed to. You studiously avoid a key point: why didn't Sheff have the courtesy to ask Panthers first?

But the 10th was before the season ended. So why are you sticking that date up as one they had set aside for the post-season play-offs ? Also, Sheffield had every flippin' Thursday listed on their fixture list - either with a meeting or "reserved". And those Thursdays before the season ended that are marked as "reserved" would be for rearranged meetings, not for play-offs! So I suggest it's you who is speaking with a forked tongue! Are Sheffield scared of facing Panthers with a full team?

But according to the BSPA site (qv), the date Sheffield had set aside ("reserved") is the 24th. http://www.speedwaygb.co/september15 So it seems that the dates for this H & A play-off between Sheffield & Panthers would be the 24th (at Sheff) and the 25th (at the EoES) because those are the dates "reserved" for play-off home legs for the respective clubs. Maybe Sheffield realised Panthers would be disadvantaged by having a couple of key riders missing on that earlier Thursday (17th), and maybe it's a crafty move by them to try to railroad it in on the 17th. Ged Rathbone won't just roll over. But if Panthers are forced to cave in I hope Ged rustles up a couple of cracking guests. And if he does, and if Panthers come away with a win, the squealing will be oh so sweet to hear. yes, but it's not the date that was "reserved" against Sheffield's name on the BSPA fixtures page. http://www.speedwaygb.co/september15 The 24th is the date that was always "reserved" against Sheffield's name. The fixture has suddenly appeared as listed for the 17th because Sheffield unilaterally decided on the 17th once they knew they'd be facing Panthers - and, crafty devils, they spotted that we'd have key riders missing. Panthers should have a say in it too.

one ride (replacing Simon Lambert) in each of the three remaining meetings would be rideS (plural). So Panthers89 was correct in what he said. Maybe you weren't following the conversation (qv) and so you took it out of context.

I was thinking the same thing.... but can only hope we're wrong

interesting shout......

that's good to hear... just hope he comes through it ok and properly fit for Friday's meeting v Newcastle.

Yes, very tiresome. Lukas was quite right about Simon Lambert being one of our "top 3" riders, i.e. most important based on Panthers season overall. That was the context. The whole world - except you - knew what Lukas meant. And if you asked any Panthers fan who we'd miss most if they were out injured or whatever, Simon Lambert would definitely in the top 3 names they mention. I say that with confidence because every one of the couple of dozen Panthers fans that I know/chat to rates Simon L in the top 3 this season. You chose to be a smartar5e and pick Lukas up on it because, according to you, "top 3" can only ever mean the highest 3 averages in the team at any given time. Well yeah, if that's the context - but it wasn't. By the way, I'm sure none of us need a lecture from you about averages, how they work and their significance. I certainly don't. You keep wriggling if you want, but I can't be ar5ed any more. Indeed. It's a safe bet that all Panthers fans think the same.

Talented or not, good riddance to Robert Lambert (and his mummy). STFU! Nope, it's not strange at all. The way he's taken the pi55 all season and now demanding more money..... it's a no-brainer to dump him. good post

yes, that's the way I read it. maybe Panthers89 should have said "hope the real MPT turns up"

No, that's NOT what I was saying at all. Firstly, I never said anything about "easier" rides; where do you get that from? Secondly, I did not acknowledge that averages are the yardstick to use; I was saying the very opposite in the context of whether Simon Lambert is in the 'top 3' for Panthers this season. Look, this little argument started when Lukas asserted that Simon Lambert is one of our 'top 3 riders' and you responded that it's just his opinion, not a "fact", clearly implying that Simon isn't one of our top 3. Maybe you should explain why you made that snidey response to Lukas in the first place. After all, you could post "that's opinion not fact" to a high proportion of posts on this forum. Lukas was making the point that when Simon L is out he's badly missed - which he definitely is, irrespective of whether he's in our 'top 3' and by whichever yardstick is used. The only yardstick that puts Robert Lambert ahead of Simon is the averages, but that's not much use to Panthers when he goes missing so often. Yes, I cannot, and do not, speak for every single Panthers fan - that's stating the bleedin' obvious! - but the posts on here tend to support my view that most are very disappointed with Robert L this season despite his 8+ average that you set such great store on. I agree that it's useful and it is, after all, the stat that dictates team-building and so on, but it's not the be-all and end-all. In fact its importance is greatly diminished if that rider keeps letting you down. I agree. On the one hand, we all know and accept that a PL club like Panthers can't expect to keep a young talent like Robert Lambert for long, the same as happened with Tai W and others before him. But what sticks in the craw is, to use your phrase, how Panthers have been used like a doormat this season. I'd prefer to have a team full of riders who might be behind RL on talent but who are fully committed to Panthers.

You were the one who made a snidey remark aimed at Lukas. I defended him - and then you squeal like a stuck pig! If you don't like it, don't give it out. You talk about 'facts'; most Panthers fans would contend that as Robert L has been missing so often his average isn't the yardstick to go by. What good is it having a rider who can bang in 8+ points but who only appears half the time, and who, much worse, keeps letting you down? Simon L missed the last meeting due to (genuine) injury, and up to then he had scored more points that Robert L. That's a FACT, easily verified! And whenever Simon L is missing nobody ever doubts the reason. And that, by the way, is another fact! See also Blackadder's post #3210; more statistical FACTS that blow holes in your comments!

good post

Well yes, but many (most?) of us Panthers fans feel like we've repeatedly had kicks in the wotsits from Lambert, the non-return from the WTC being the worst example. That defeat was largely down to him - and it ain't the only one. Even though RL is undeniably a huge talent we just never get the feeling that he's one of us. Far from it; we all know he won't look twice at Panthers next season and it feels like we're being used. Ged Rathbone has back-pedalled a bit from his initial comments criticising RL for his stupid irresponsibility last week (his ma has probably been bending Ged's ear!), but stupid irresponsibility is exactly what it was. Jason Crump wouldn't have done it when he was the same age. It should have been a nailed-on 5-1, making the score 33-27 and therefore a very good chance of beating the Monarchs again. That's unarguable - and that makes TWO meetings meeting we've lost that's down to RL. . It would be nice if Lambert came out and admitted his mistake and apologised for costing us so dearly. He could even promise to do his level best for Panthers during what's left of the season. That might build a few bridges with the Panthers fans who, like me, are becoming increasingly disenchanted with him.

Lukas' post was indeed based on facts. Simon Lambert is easily one of the "top" (i.e. best performing) three riders in the Panthers team this season. And that, oh snidey one, is not just an opinion; it's a fact!

class act? He will be one day. At the mo 'class' is a quality that's definitely missing popular? He would be popular if he showed up more often!

You're right - and the Edinburgh fan who wasn't even there - is wrong. Lambert was guilty of either foolishness or inexperience - probably a mixture of both. He was miles ahead of Grondal in 2nd place,and he (Grondal) was well ahead of the Monarchs' pair. There was no need for Lambert to go tazzing so wide off turn 3 and so close to the boards. It turned a certain 5-1 into a 3-3. It also left us without a genuine big-hitter in the vital heats 13 & 15. Up to then we were in with a good chance of winning the meeting. you call it slating him; we call it criticism where it's reasoned and factual. Of course it's not Lambert's fault that Ostergaard is out injured. Or Allen, come to that. But what's that got to do with any of the criticism that's been aimed at him? By the way, I think you're wrong about "he is scoring more points than anyone else in the team". I'm prepared to stand corrected by one of the forum stattos, but I'd say Ostergaard has scored more. Don't forget that Lambert has been missing for nearly half Panthers' meetings.

I smell bull5h!t...... Look at my post again. I was taking Jenga to task about two things: 1. in response to his silly accusation that Panthers fans don't want "outside comments" in this thread, I said of course we do and It's not WHO is making the post; it's WHAT they post. That needs no explanation, surely. 2. About the off-topic bollox he keeps posting in this thread. Your post is of no interest to me whatsoever, but you were perfectly entitled to make it - even though it added to the off-topic cr4p that has been polluting this Panthers 2015 thread, and it would have been better posted elsewhere. But it has nothing to do with what I'd been saying. And that's why I object to you linking it with me via the 'quote' button. I suspect what happened is that you spotted a handy phrase I'd used and then you hijacked my post to continue the little spat you'd been having with another forumite. Referring to "your top poster on here" was a clumsy attempt to make some sort of link with what I'd been posting in response to Jenga - but it just doesn't stand up. I don't even know what you mean by "your top poster" anyway.

erm... maybe I'm being a bit dense, but why is your post linked to mine above (qv)? What's it got to do with my post, which was purely response to, and about, stuff that Jenga had been posting on this 'Pboro Panthers 2015' thread?