oldace

I presume then she says the same about Formula 1 or Moto GP or the tennis at Wimbledon or virtually any event that is part of a series. And as for the boat race, well that one will really confuse her.

I assumed you were referring to Lee of 1977 vintage, Collins of 1973 etc, i.e when they made their debuts. Of course they went on to be greats in much the same way as the three I mentioned may well do in the future.

For Moore, Lee, Collins etc you can substitute Sayfutinov, Woffinden, Ward etc. Young talent gets the same opportunity now as then, probably more so.

16 out of 32 places places is not a closed shop but 4 out of 16 is!!!!!!!!!!!!

A raw 18 year old!!! Becker happened to be be ranked about 20 in the world in 1985 in an era of only 16 seeds. Unseeded doesn't mean qualifier, no qualifier has ever won Wimbledon. It is strange that in your contempt of the four seeded places in a GP you hold up Wimbledon as an example, a tournament that seeds 32 players directly into it. Another example you give is the snooker world final where half the field are given places without the need to qualfy

Indeed such was the dominance of the "big five". Strangely though you get people on here bemoaning how the top eight now rarely changes from one year to the next, a situation entirely brought about by the modern "qualification" system and yet here you show, nearly 60 years ago we had a situation where 24 out of 27 podium places were won by the same 5 riders. No matter how much evidence that things, as regards the top riders staying the same over long periods, are no different to how they always were people still spout the same old lines

Is this simply now a list of all British riders rather than ones of any particular note

I fully respect your opinion on the GP Sidney and I too don't think the qualification process is spot on but you keep repeating something that is untrue, thats not an opinion, thats just ignoring the truth

Soren was an Ace a few years before that Sidney

13 guaranteed places!!! OK then tell me who are the thirteen guaranteed places allocated to for 2013. There is not one single guaranteed place, how many times do you need it explaining to you. There are 11 places open to qualifying, either through the more difficult route of the current series or the easier route of the challenge. There are 4 places (maybe 1 too many) set aside for wild card picks, be that either exciting new talent, like Darcy Ward this year or riders clearly in the top 16 in the world, like maybe Nicki Pedersen also this year. Which leaves one local, or otherwise, wildcard for each event. Your argument is like saying there were 16 guaranteed places in a world final, all a rider had to do was qualify for them!! my 8 maybe would be Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett Vaculiev Unbelievably you go from detesting the way riders get there to advocating places to 8 riders who all failed in the qualifying event, you are contradicting yourself at every turn Sidney You may or may not like the GP system but to keep saying over and over that it is a closed shop when it patently isn't only serves to make you look foolish, you are literally arguing black is white.

Started out with Stoke in the early 80s but a broken thigh at Canterbury in the British Junior Championship slowed his progress, struggled a little after that before getting a chance at Ellesmere Port in 1985 when Phil Alderman got hurt. Was pretty darn good round Thornton Road getting a 12 point maximum from the number 8 spot in one match. The demise of Ellesmere saw Gary move around a little before a decent spell at Long Eaton brought the curtain down on his career. Never a superstar and always had a little bit of a weight problem, dont we all, but if not for the broken thigh was, in my opinion, likely to have made British League second string standard

I think we have been here before mate, we will agree to differ

Is that for real? A rider must qualify by finishing in the top 8 of a season long qualifying competition against the best 15 riders in the world and you consider that to be easy.

Seem to think Joe Owen may have used one in 1985

No mate it is not my opinion, it is just facts, you keep saying the GP is a closed shop and I was pointing out, backed up by real proof, that it is no such thing, if you wish to not believe that then I can not do anything about that. That is why I have given up!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok Sidney I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sidney what part of the GP qualifying system are you not getting. Janowski, Ward etc and all the others you keep banging on about have all had an opportunity to qualify for the GP, the two mentioned failed to qualify and were not in the GP, exactly as a rider failing to qualify for a World Final doesn't get to race in it. The difference is that despite failing to qualify the GP process takes account of other factors and despite a rider being eliminated he can still be offered a place, as Ward has been for this year, no doubt if Janowski continues to fail in the qualifiers but shows genuine world class he may also be offered this route. You, like a few others, have read one poster in particular banging on about the so called "closed shop" and believed it without actually seeing if there is any truth in it, which there isn't. Once and for all there is a qualifing process for the GP and a rider good enough, or lucky enough can qualify

What was (is) the problem with speedway on red button. It is, to all intents and purposes, just another sports channel, the same as Sky Sports 1,2,3, and 4. It is available to everyone subscribing to Sky with all the same features as the other sport channels, i.e. the facility to record. As regards showing it live at 4AM, that will just result in most viewers recording it for later viewing, a trend not best suited to selling premium advertising space. I would expect, depending on their other comittments that morning that Sky will show it "as live" approx mid morning, 9AM ish

Surely this is all a big mistake, everyone knows there are no qualifiers for the GP series. All these riders from all over the world being conned into thinking it is a GP qualifier. Worse still there are 4 other similar cons going on in other parts of the globe, and even worse it has been going on for years. Sidney and Ian and Derek all tell us these meetings dont exist

Oh dear, I would HAVE thought better of you than to fall into replacing "have" with "of". tut tut tut

Three of the things you mention (play offs, GPs and SWC) are, by far, the best attended events that speedway has!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the same half a dozen or so people saying the same thing over and over believing that if you say something enough times people will start to believe it. The acid test of peoples opinions of the GP is reflected in the crowd and while that is maintaining, or even increasing in numbers it suggests people are indeed changing their opinion but in favour rather than against.

Why do you think "someone like Barry Hearn" has not already grasped the idea of a GP in London. Because it is a sure fire way to do your wedge, as Sydney was for Lander. If you read the article last summer in the star you would have read, beneath the waffle, that there was no hope of speedway ever returning to Odsal, now even more certain with the stadium being owned by the RFL.

As far as I am aware IMG will listen to any offers from would be promoters to stage a GP, David Lander in Sydney springs to mind. That said if I felt as passionately as Sidney and a few others why not get a consortium together and bid to promote an event at Wembley. 5 or 6 of you prepared to gamble your houses should raise enough capital and as you are all so sure it will be a winner, attracting 10,000 at least more than Cardiff you are onto a sure fire winner. Of course you won't because it wouldn't have a hope in hell of rivalling Cardiff. As for Odsal being on a par with the millennium stadium, that's a joke right? it is just a hole in the ground in a god forsaken part of the UK, and as for it being a better racing track, what planet are you on, it doesn't have a track of any kind, let alone a good one. The old track is now bounded on turns 3 and 4 by corporate boxes and would need completely re designing, not that a GP, or speedway of any kind is a possibility there anyway. Never in all the years Wembley hosted world finals did it boast an attendance over 20 times that of the average attendance in the countries top division, and yet Cardiff does. The British speedway GP isn't broke and so doesn't need any kind of fix, be that Wembley or anywhere else. That is my opinion but if I felt as strongly as you guys that Wembley was a sure fire winner I would be in there bidding to host it

All got in excess of 50,000, some only just, pretyy good by todays standards but not the 90,000 some would have you believe