oldace

Ellesmere Port won the 1985 National League and closed immediately after

No need to imagine it. It has been the case for years in football, long before speedway thought of it.

If you lower admission by 50% you need a 100% increase in gate levels to offset it

The Taylor report was in the aftermath of Hillsborough in 1989 and was published in 1990. Hyde Road was demolished in 1987. Valley Parade in 1985 was really the death knell for Hyde Road

Total nonsense. It is just the excuse you were looking for to justify not going anymore. There is no way that someone would love everything about the sport but not go over 1 rule

But they would if it was a meaningless league match under the old format ?

This is unbelievable No one denies you your right to dislike the play offs. People have asserted that mid season crowds would be better if it were not for play offs so for the umpteenth time Why would this be, why would a match in Aug between the 5th and 6th place teams be more appealing if neither team had anything to race for. We are simply asking for the thinking behind this but no one seems willing to answer

I am saying that is what we know with 100% certainty, No play off final means no bumper play off crowds and that is there for all to see. What is conjecture, although common sense tells us it to be so, is the potential to increase gate revenue by what would be meaningless matches now being of some importance during the regular season Are you being serious!!!!!!!! They are not shared events so the gate receipts go to the host club. What else could happen to them

My son said to me he wants to go to speedway next year now the NL have brought back play offs. He says speedway is totally boring without them, a point everyone in the pub agreed with and there followed rapturous applause all round the vault on hearing the news

Easy tiger!!!!!

Didn't he one fully live up to his BJ initials in the back of his van. Not sure HMRC consider him a character either!!!!!

Course he did. Why do people still do this cobblers with made up conversations. It should be a bloke in the pub really you know who fell about laughing when you mentioned play offs

OK Sidney, one last try!! We get you don't like the play off, neither does Ian, or DAC and a few others. That is fine, it is entirely your choice. There is hard evidence that the final generates £1000s for each participating team. Belle Vue probably had 3000 more than the normal gate, so assuming a normal gate at least breaks even then at £14.58 nett admission that put over £40,000 into the coffers. Likewise Poole and every finalist in years gone by. That is undeniable but you assert that it is at the expense of crowds earlier in the season so I ask you again, why would this be? In suggesting dropping the play offs what is your rationale that crowds earlier in the season would go up. In my opinion fans are more likely to attend matches where the outcome matters, the match having some meaning so why, in your opinion would a match involving 5th and 6th place teams be more attractive under an old style league format. First place is still mega important with regard semi final opposition so why would their crowds be affected in the run to the season end. Wolves had to cram in a Belle Vue/Leicester double header with the outcome vital for the Aces, why would that match have had a better crowd with no play offs in place I am not asking for a rant about "no right and wrong answers" just simply tell us your thinking. We all know speedway is in a mess and that crowds are not good so tell us how that would improve. It may be something blindingly obvious that myself, bwitcher, orion etc have all missed!!!. So without a hissy fit just tell us why dropping play offs would benefit the sport

Well they only work if you are judging success in the context of thousands of extra fans through the turnstiles, both during the regular season and bumper crowds for the final. They only work if you consider generating £10,000s of extra revenue, possibly keeping clubs alive to be successful. If you consider success as keeping a couple of soppy old duffers happy then they have failed. Interesting that Fred likes the FA premiership model. Is this the model that despite £billions of TV money and gate receipts almost all clubs are virtually trading insolvent, Is this the model that requires a stream of mugs ready to do their wedge in on a hobby horse to keep it in any way sustainable.

Indeed you are, and you are perfectly entitled to not like the play off ethic, that is a matter of opinion and personal choice. It is when ridiculous statement saying they are responsible in any way shape or form for falling crowds that it becomes wrong. You need to learn the difference between opinion and plain facts. Am I entitled to if the opinion that 2 + 2 = 5 and expect no one to point out that it isnt a matter if opinion, its just total bollox

So now you don't want rid of the play offs unless something better is implemented? And when they find something better I am sure it will be implemented. Just like 15 years ago when they found a better way of running the league and bringing in loads of money. You have been advocating getting rid of a sure fire, proven, tried and tested money spinner to revert to a system that totally didn't work. Try thinking about what you post and see if it is consistent with your previous offerings and if it is actually sensible in the slightest. I know it would limit your input somewhat but it could help you to stop keep making a t!t of yourself

They did exactly that 15 years ago. The old league format had been used for best part of 70 years and clubs were in dire straits. Fortunately the promoters had the foresight to recognise it and implemented a system that has saved many clubs from going to the wall. Strangely you are now advocating a return to the tried and failed system of pre 2000 Fortunately you dont run the sport or god help us all, stick to flipping burgers at McDonalds

One finished the night a hero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvb3kDJpR1w The other finished a villain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRYM-qWMr6w 2 very similar first bends though, only difference is Hans didn't fall

Football was way ahead of speedway in using play offs to arrest a decline in attendances. The lower leagues always suffered dips in crowds once promotion was out of reach and relegation avoided. Play off where brought in for exactly that reason. Nowadays only a few teams get to the last matches of the season with nothing riding on them and crowds are up as a consequence The FA Premier League is a different animal because, at this moment in time, it isn't in decline and isn't looking for drastic ways to reinvent itself. Elite League Speedway was in massive decline and while play offs maybe haven't reversed the decline it is certain they have arrested it somewhat.

Can I suggest if it is tiresome dont keep contributing. You may have noticed you are on a discussion forum and people are having a discussion. The forum is full of self appointed guardians of the public interest and doesnt need another

No question Egon Muller was the best rider on show that day in Norden 1983. He was no where near the top speedway rider in the world at that time though, he won at Norden because the authorities decided to run a speedway final on what is basically a mini longtrack, a discipline in which Muller excelled

Liking or disliking something is a personal choice, thats fine. It is when ridiculous arguments with no substance whatsoever are put foreard to supposedly support that opinion it becomes silly. Clearly a few people dont like play offs but to suggest they are in any way responsible for the decline in the sport, when overwhelming evidence shows different is ludicrous

There was nothing badly worded about it. You assert that, as crowds have fallen since the play offs were introduced then it must be the play offs to blame. Lits of other things have come into the sport since 2000 so presumably they are ewually to blame. You can cite any change since then and pin the blame for the decline on that event, however ludicrous, but with overwhelming evidence that certain events have actually halted the decline rather than contributed to it, that stance really only serves to make you look foolish.

You seem to be understanding it now. The fans clamour to the play offs, the matches preceding them now have more meaning so they attract bigger crowds, these bigger crowds generate ? So now you acknowledge this why would anyone suggest doing away with them Hey, not all of us !!!!!! Actually speedway, or any sport, shouldn't pander to the Luddite aspect. To be honest speedway, if it was properly presented should have no interest to a large chunk of its current audience but it should seek a whole new audience. Exactly like Barry Hearn did for the PDC. He wasn't interested in the few hundred pensioners sitting knitting in muted silence nursing a milk stout while watching what passed as darts 25 years ago. He knew the show he wanted to present would appall them, the point is at the expense of a few hundred coffin dodgers he attracted a whole new audience with a vibrant, noisy night out

There is no question to answer. Play offs are a modern money generating means of deciding a league title, the fans flock to see them, they are exciting, the revenue probably keeps clubs in existence, so what is there to really answer.