moomin man 76

I certainly wouldn't disagree about your thoughts regarding Atkins, but I'm not sure how much further improvement the likes of Dwyer, Bowtell and Basford have in them, as they have ridden at National League level for some time in obtaining the averages they have.

Three strong heat leaders, but a very long tail after that. In my opinion, riders with bigger improvements in them required at second string.

At Under 21 Level, Finland arguably has a better set of riders than Sweden at present...Lunna, Mustonen and Partanen are a match for anything Sweden has to offer. Anyone who seems to think the situation in Sweden is healthy is deluded at best. At senior level, I would guess that Timo Lahti would be a shoe in for a qualifying place and would at least have a fair shot at getting to the SEC Final Qualifier. After that, I guess it would be a question of which other riders would want to participate, but to say Finland wouldn't have any riders to sent to the SEC is a little odd.

Even if it was worth entering PZM/Ektrasliga would have to amend their own rules to allow it to happen, as otherwise any 'British' based team would be restricted to the Polish lower divisions. After all, Daugavpils have won the lower league for the last two season but have been denied promotion, as to ride in the top league, you have to be based inside Poland's territorial borders and employ a minimum number of Polish riders. The latter would defeat the point of entering the league as a means of developing British talent.

After the false start of the previous 'Crawley Heathens' thread, I thought it better to start a new threat, to allow Heathens fans and others to discuss the forthcoming season. Amongst the apparent issues to consider are race night and how many available dates might be available at 'Monmore Wood,' the potential points limit for team building (I personally can't see it being lower than 40) and potential team lineups if clubs will be working to a 40 points limit.

Alternatively, someone could always start another thread with the correct heading this time!

If that is the case, I can't see Nike's average being a problem in him getting a team place somewhere, even if it isn't at Glasgow. He frankly should be achieving far more than a 5 point average in the 2017 watered down Premier League.

I'd be pretty surprised if Tero couldn't at least hold his average given how the strength of the league has been watered down.

If someone could provide concrete examples of where the 8 day rule has been waived this season it would be helpful, as the rule book is crystal clear that James Shanes was ineligible to ride. in my opinion, Graham Drury was naive to book James Shanes as a guest, as even if the rule has been waived earlier in the season, there was no guarantee it would always be waived; after all this was the Knockout Cup Final, rather than a league fixture potentially between two teams with little at stake. As always in such circumstances, the losers were the paying public, who were paying to watch a spectacle that wasn't as it was described. I particularly have sympathy with the Birmingham fans who travelled to Eastbourne to spectate, but their own team manager could have booked any number of riders to guest, yet chose to book a rider who was ineligible.

I appreciate that this is a long shot, but I am looking for the programmes below to finish off my collection; 1950: 22/7/50 v Walthamstow - National League Division Two (17) - Rained Off 28/8/50 v Glasgow Ashfield - National League Division Two (22) - Rained Off 25/9/50 v Sheffield - National League Division Two (26) - Rained Off 1951: 9/4/51 v Leicester - Midland Shield (3) 14/5/51 v Southampton - National League Division Two (8) 9/7/51 v Norwich - National Trophy (16) 31/8/51 v Glasgow Ashfield - National League Division Two (22) - Rained Off 7/9/51 v Walthamstow - National League Division Two (23) 1952: 5/7/52 v Motherwell - National League Division Two (13) 11/7/52 - World Championship Qualifying Round (14) - Rained Off 18/7/52 v Oxford - National League Division Two (15) 25/7/52 - World Championship Qualifying Round (16) 1/8/52 v Glasgow Ashfield - National League Division Two (17) 15/8/52 v Liverpool - National League Division Two (20) 5/9/52 v Stoke - National League Division Two (23) 12/9/52 v Glasgow White City - National League Division Two (24) 19/9/52 v Edinburgh - National League Division Two (25) I would be grateful to hear from anyone who has any of these programmes spare, as well as anyone with any information about them; especially the existence of the 'rained off' programmes.

I couldn't honestly say, but the result did end up as a draw at the end of the meeting. The riders before the final heat would have known what result would have led to a drawn match, so some sort of unofficial agreement may have occurred.

Greg Hancock Select v Billy Hamill Select - Last Ever at Dudley Wood (1995). Not particularly great racing, but poignant for all the wrong reasons.

I think I'll make the trip over the A69 from Carlisle for this one...shoud be a cracker weather permitting.

They could try and do that, but would any Ekstraliga club try to do so if hypothetically a top GP rider demanded such a term not to be in his contract? They know that without the services of said rider there would be a diminishment in points scored per match by their club and potential interest from the terraces if spectators realise that the top names woiuld be missing.

Mind you, if I had enough money and suggested I would become a major GP sponsor (and/or provide live terestrial television coverage in a particular country), it would be interesting to see if my offer to nominate a rider of my choice from a country not currently represented in the GP series would be accepted by BSI/IMG. Just wondering how much money talks?

I would firstly imagine that any rider who is near the top of the GP standings can probably demand the removal of such terms in a contract, as Polish clubs would be just as keen to employ their services as any other club in any other country. As a side issue, I can't imagine such a clause would be popular with riders from Denmark, Czech Republic etc etc where a league also operates, as if I am interpreting the situation correctly it would seem to infer that any rider that rides in their domestic leage would only be able to ride in 2 out of 3 from Elite League, Ekstraliga and Elitserien. In the interests of 'fair play' it seems fair to me that the league that should take seniority should be the league that a rider first rides in, which in most instances would be a reflection of nationality.

Depending on the points limit, as well as conversion rates, I would take a look in no particular order at David Bellego,Dmitri Berge and Erik Riss. I'd also be tempted if I was the Belle Vue promotion to consider Dan Bewley if there is some sort of fast track system at reserve.

A more interesting listing would be based on average attendance figures, which would unfortunately put British tracks towards the rear of any listing. Unfortunately, such a list wouldn't accurately exist, as UK promoters refuse to disclose true attendance figures; perhaps due to the cash in hand nature of promotion in the UK.

I wouldn't wish to speculate on whether the riders are getting paid or not. I'm sure that there are others on here who know the reality of the situation better than I do. The racing last night was entertaining on a well prepared track, so in that sense the product is there. However, I do wonder whether one of the problems Workington have faced is the age old problem of entertainment versus winning team? With the best will in the world, the team that Workington assembled this season was no better than average by Premier League standards, with too many known riders whose averages were unlikely to go up sufficiently to challenge at the upper end of the table. Last night, the attendance was better but it was artificially boosted by good travelling support from Glasgow. Brian Havelock may have developed a Redcar team that is solvent, but I've seen little/no evidence of promotion from Redcar to pull in new fans. Neither have Redcare been attractive visitors to 'away' tracks, so in fielding a weak side, Brian Havelock has arguably damaged other promotions business, as casual fans are less likely to attend meetings when the visitors are weak and have few riders of interest. Indeed, how many Redcar fans actually travel to away meetings, when they know their team is going to be so poor on their travels?

Indeed, it was a good meeting at Workington with passing in nearly every heat.

Exactly. The unfortunate truth is that in comparison to other parts of the country, North and West Cumbria have low wage economies. I can't imagine that the closure of the steel works in Workington a few years ago helped the local economy either. Both Workington Town and Workington Reds pull in lower crowds. The situation with the Comets is similar. Further afield, Whitehaven RLFC are pulling in far fewer spectators than ten years ago. Even my local rugby union club at Wigton have far fewer watching.

At the end of the day, the SWC means far more to us fans than it does to Tai Woffinden. From his perspective, the World Championship is his absolute goal at the start of each season. The SWC means little, as in reality as this year showed, it doesn't matter how many points he might score, Great Britain has no chance of winning the gold medal. As fans, we can all talk about the pride a rider should feel about riding for his country, but from a riders perspective if appearing for his country leaves him out of pocket there is far less incentive to ride. I can't say whether that applies to Tai Woffinden, as I wouldn't wish to speculate how much each Great Britain rider earned, but if expenses exceed earnings it is as good reason as any not to ride.

I wouldn't profess to know the inside difficulties that the Workington promotion have faced this season, as in spite of only living 25 miles away, my attendance is sporadic at best. The promotion have tried to promote the club. Even in Carlisle, there is an advertisement for the club outside a major motorcycle dealers on Wigton Road, advertisements in Carlisle 'Life' magazine and a prominent advertisement in the Lanes shopping centre. However, at the start of the season in my eyes, there wasn't any 'wow' or excitement factor about the Workington team. The assembled team was competent, but consisted of riders whose form and abilities were well known. At best, as the league table has eventually proven, they were a mid-table side. There wasn't sufficient potential improvement within the team to challenge any higher up the league. Unfrotunately, I wouldn't advocate the model proposed by Brian Havelock as a model to be embraced by the rest of the league either, unless all Premier League teams were to de-strengthen, thus dilulting the product and potentially reducing attendance further. The Redcar promotion may be solvent, but in assembling the weak teams that they have done for the past few years, they have arguably hindered the business of rival promotions, as they are definitely not an attractive visiting team to watch. I certainly wouldn't pay good money to watch Workington v Redcar at Derwent Park, as the likely outcome is all to predictable. At the same time, I would pay to watch Workington against the likes of Glasgow and Somerset.

I personally wouldn't go anywhere near Scott Nicholls. A great rider in his time, but his average is only heading one way now. His limitations were cruelly exposed over both legs of the Grand Final - to be replaced by Joe Jacobs in your last programmed ride, when your team needs a 5-1 to keep the meeting alive, says it all.

There was good racing from all tonight. Unfortunately, Belle Vue left themselves with far too much to do after the 1st leg. From a neutrals point of view, it was good to see Peter Karlsson role back the years and show somes glimpses of what a great rider he was in his prime, with his points proving vital in the end result. He can now retire from British speedway on a high. Thanks for the memories PK.