Grand Central

The strongest GP Line up for years. Probably the weakest line up of referees for years.

Absolutely right. Many people have written almost exactly the same as Philip Rising has done. Some more articulately. With the resources available to SS one would have expected a whole lot more.

I see that tickets bought in advance for the Kings Lynn SWC Round are £15. This seems just about right. It would not be unreasonable to expect a league match to cost a few quid less. But not more.

You are quite correct. No one here has ever suggested such a thing. But some sports pay a lot of attention to the music. To enhance the experience. Speedway does not. That's all.

That must be it. Some sadistic promoters have instituted a new tolerance test for their supporters. 'Just how much bad music can you stand before you are put off coming entirely?' As Cityrebels limit has not yet been reached., Any ideas on Uncle Len's next bit of torture?

That is only true to a point. Cardiff is just once a year. League Speedway three or four times a month is a totally different matter. We are 'happy' to be pay over the odds for a one-off meeting that is far from being 'just another speedway meeting' like you say . Whilst we do want value for money very few people would pay £29 for a stonking, all value-packed speedway meeting at their local track twenty-odd times a year. No matter how wonderful a night they had. My point remains the same all along. The product I get in British Speedway 'feels' to me to be worth £10. I cannot see anyone currently promoting improving on that 'feeling', quite the reverse. It would just seem sensible that as many costs that can be cut, are cut so that the price I am charged is somewhere in the ball park of the value. Not, as it is at the moment, six or seven pounds more costly that it feels to be worth.

You're quite right. And you'd already given a very full explanation of the history. But now, on top of Speedway's current woes, some of us are objecting to decisions made fifty years ago. Almost as if by moaning today we could change the past. Which is a bit rich even by this forum's standards. I know Matt Smith is ending his stint as Dr Who. But is this some strange audition for the role of the new Time Lord?

Well said. People keep making unrealistic comparsions just to make a point. But just their point. They compare chalk and cheese. Then come up with the bright idea that a 'Chalk and Pickle' Sandwich might taste good. In Poland.

Trouble is, you did not mention 'county cricket league' in the post in question. You mentioned Wimbledon Tennis, top priced tickets in the Premier League and a special cricket match that is sold out.

If you follow what the guy from Meridian Lifts says on here, then it's pretty much the same at Cardiff if you are in 'The Know'.

Beluga Caviar costs £71 for 30g whereas Baked Beans are 50p a can. A Hollywood blockbuster costs 200 million dollars to make but Hollyoaks can be bashed together for £2.50. The girl at the hairdressers across the road thinks she is a dead ringer for Holly Willoughby. She isn't. We can all make outlandish comparisions. But who does it help? .

But if the chap only goes to two fewer meetings over the year then the overall take for the promotion will be £10 LESS. These are scary numbers if you get them wrong.

No apology needed at all. As you said the 1985 Final was 28 years ago And 1990 was still 23 years ago. The question of the price for next year is still a very valid one, though. It's just the looking back in time that doesn't seem to offer much help. To me at any rate.

I understand that a surcharge may be the one reasonable method of raising some funds. And no doubt they will think of many other ingenious ways. But asking kiddies to pay? Is that really sensible? .

It's all so long ago and things are different in every way that I cannot see the point of any such comparisons. I was just correcting an inaccuracy. You can compare prices over decades by many means, 'real' terms, relative to earnings, even in pints of beer. But it's all pretty pointless. That was the price then. This is the price now.

Actually not true. Standing tickets at Odsal were £7.50 and seats (less than 5000) in the Stand were £15, £17.50 and £20. Nothing over that. I'm not decrying your point on the value you had at Western Springs as £29 sounds a decent price. I presume market forces led Mr Buckley to set the prices keenly. But the vast majority at the 85 Final had £1 change from a tenner after paying to get in and buying a programme. .

Really? People with no 'proper' Speedway watching history? It's just that I didn't see so many people without some form of 'branding'. Or ex-regular fans? Who just go this once a year. Having been to Cardiff every year, and sat just about everywhere, I've never felt like I have been sitting among the uninitiated. Everyone has seemed to be 'Speedway', one way or another. Have you found it different?

Well, those nice people at BSI have the database on the Cardiff ticket holders (except those that buy from touts, SCB) - and have done for the past 13 years. They have certainly made use of it; though purely for reminder cards that get routinely sent. I'm sure they would charge only the smallest fee tor the BSPA to have access to it for marketing research purposes. I wonder if anyone has asked? The extra numbers at Cardiff could probably be explained by three main groups, though. 1) The dragged along spouses (and other family). It does seem quite easy to pursuade them to go to Cardiff for the weekend. HiEdge Raceway is a more difficult ask. 2) The overseas fans. There were quite a few there. 3) The Fans-without-a-team-to-support. Those from Bradford, Reading, Oxford, Exeter, Wimbledon, Cradley, Hull, Newport and the rest. They may still go, occasionally, to their nearest track without becoming regulars. Some were in evidence at Cardiff. And, on top of all that, from what you read on here 'regular' fans themselves are just not 'as regular' as they used to be, anyway. I blame the diet. .

Thanks for that info. I did not realise that. Yes when you have a look around the world, as I have just done via google etc, at some of the god-forsaken places that have APDs (when so many British Premier League tracks still don't) then it is quite an eye-opener.

Good point. And as this is an edict originating at FIM level then the rest of the world will be looking for APDs as well.

Speedway promotions are all registered for VAT so they will have all set the input tax on an air fence against the output tax it collects on behalf of HMRC at the turnstiles.

My 'take' on this sort of valuable information is Polish Speedway is doing something sufficiently 'right' that not very well paid people are prepared to pay a reasonably high proportion of their take home pay to go and watch regularly and still in quite high numbers. Whereas British Speedway does not seem to be achieving this. I presume, from what you say, Pawel, Speedway in Rzeszow 'feels' like a 30zl Sport. I just maintain that, to me, a Speedway watcher of 40 years plus, British Speedway 'feels' like it is worth £10. Right now. But we are paying up to £17. Just in dwindling numbers. Whether the costs can ever be reduced to anything like the £10 price point I really do not know. I suspect that none will actually try and we will have to continue to considerably pay more than £10 but still get just £10 of product. And numbers will dwindle further..

I tried this in my business, the other week. A customer came back with a grotesquely faulty product I was producing. He said 'This product is crap, it's not fit for purpose; it is so bad it is almost laughable' My reply was along your lines 'And you're fully thought out solution is what?' I still cannot walk properly after the custumer took this as a signal to ram the said faulty product right up my backside. I cannot work out where I went wrong. .

I went to the bar at the Stadium because I wanted a drink during the meeting. I went to enjoy myself. Surely that is not too difficult to understand. .

I'll have to politely decline your kind invitation. I cannot put my money where my mouth is at the moment as I am a little over extended. I made the comment that I thought RBS were not performing well so have had to put all my savings and spare time into running their company; and that comes on top of my previous commitments to Syria, the G8, the EU and the promises I made to Michael Gove to sort out his GCSE problems. The thing is I keep forgetting that whenever you express an opinion on any subject in the world you always have to be prepared to take on the running of the whole thing. Otherwise you are meant to be silent. Silly, silly me. I think I would agree with a great many of the cost cutting points you make. I fear that others may attack you on the basis that the figures may be a little off. Each club gets quite bit less than £100,000 for sure. There is the GoSpeed cut for a start. .