Grand Central

I can be endlessly critical of the promoters and some of their philosophies. But then again the alternatives offered by some on the sidelines are just so dangerously naive that we must be truly thankful they have not been in a position to implement them I am amazed at how often you have listened to such complete Horlicks without challenging it's voracity.

The way averages are calculated and presented is fine. A four ride CMA is as relevant today as it has ever been. Only a certain number or riders have ever done 4 rides in a meeting; since 1965 the reserves had three and tac sub/RR rides boosted some to five or six outings. The anomaly was when bonus point were included for team building. That silliness ended some time ago. There are many things that need changing in speedway. But altering the way averages are recorded is way down the list. Especially if it is only to try and help those who just need remedial maths tuition.

It is not 'simple' if maths is not your strongpoint. Clearly.

Averages - without bonus points - and points limits being used to control team strengths are the best way to equalise teams. There is no sane argument against them. That is desipte some really rather sane people here believing the exact opposite. They are wrong. Setting the limit at the right level, is the critical thing, and they haven't always got that right. But stiil they, aloingside the match point system, are some of the BEST things the promoters have come up with over the years. I just dispair that so many people seem to STILL have a problem with understanding this. And, it would seem, some STILL dont know how they are calculated.

Crowd looking comatose on bends 1, 2, 3 and 4. And everywhere else. Even Antonio's win seemed to only raise only the slighest cheer. Have they moved the venue to Stockholm Central Library ? Sssh .. some people are trying to sleep.

We now have a system for warning riders about screwing up the starts. Can we have a method of warning referees for screwing up GPs due to their starting methods?

I think that there should be, and was, a distinction between a young guy who happened to have rides at a track before turning sixteen. And a genuine Team Mascot. I dont think that Joe would describe himself as Hackney Mascot. Ever. Alun Rossiter, Troy Pratt, Martin Dugard, Max Schofield and quite a few others definetely were. But some of the others being mentioned ... I am not so sure they were true 'mascots' as such

That is just not true.And it doesn't improve for the re telling. The result is a draw on aggregate. With all goals counting equally. But the deadlock is broken by the number of away goals scored. The side with the greater number of away goals goes through to the next round. It has more in common with the count back at GPs for semi final places. No goals count as double.

You are right. It may very well not be viable at the price I, and many others, would be prepared to pay. Unlike you, I never mentioned or intimated any form of 'windfall' for anyone. But charging more for the service would not make it more viable either. When the bet365 feed was working I used it a fair bit. And took up the betting option as well. If that had been better handled than 'giving away' the pictures it may have had more chance of producing revenue. But hey, what do I know. I was only giving my view on the service that I found entertaining. It may just be a non starter in any form for all the reasons you state. Another dead end for the sport.

From the mid seventies at Hyde Road ... Allan Ryder and Rob Carter And from The Shay in the late seventies through to mid eighties ... Max Schofield. It's strange but I remember these names and their team associations of Mascots from thirty years ago better than some of those of fully feldged team members of the last couple of years. It says a lot about much of what is currently wrong with British Speedway.

It would seem this is so true that it denies us even hope. If it were actually possible for them to do better they would have done it before now. Wouldn't they?

I really liked the bet365 coverage even though it was so basic. Something like £4.99 would have been the maximum to be paid for that sort of format, I would think, for me. And for the right meetings. Add in a bit more to the production that improved the quality even a fair bit and I don't think I would be ineterested in paying any more. Just getting to see the action from an away fixture that I was never going to travel to would be it's USP.

It's funny how we are here twenty seven years later. And so much of the unpleasentness of 1990 can be so easily unleashed. As an Aces fan of the time it lives long in the memory. It's one thing to be a bad loser. But to be a bad winner, after all that time, is quite a thing to behold.

Absolutely. I was just pointing out that the fortunes of Speedway Star will have matched those of the sport itself. Its dwindling circulation probably mimicing those reduced numbers through the turnstiles; creating the same issues. And it has only (very recently) increased it's price to its current £3 which is still less of a rise than the inflation figure you quote. Speedway promoters have taken a different path with their admission charges.

WAY, WAY OFF. According to the Speedway Star Preview for the 1999 season Workington were £7.50 for Adults. Make of that what you will. Edit: Over that 18 year period Worlkingtons entry fee has increased by 106% If Speedway Star had increased their cover price by the same proportion (instead of their actual 58%) it would be nearly £4 an issue not £3. I wonder (doubt) if Philip Rising would regard that a viable price for his business model.

40 odd years. ha ha

They(we) still do. It's really no different that calling a mic' a Mike...

I dont think ANYONE has ever said that the old tac sub rules were changed because of any distate on the part of the paying public. It has been stated time and again that the only reason it was changed was to save money. Personally I think it was a very sad change at the time as it changed the tactical element of a meeting drastcally, and detrimentally. By amending the regulations slightly at the time the 'cost' and 'Heat 8' issue could have been easily ameliorated. But the BSPA threw the baby out with the bath water and gave us the defective 'double point' bunkum in its place. Today it would no doubt be ridiculously expensive to reinstate the old ruling. But with the match point system now in place the need for atactical ride is hardly an issue. And lets face it the double up, guest, rider replacement clap trap we have today FAR EXCEEDS this entire TR thing anyway.

Daft example. In that particular case neither a tactical ride or old tac subs is going to make a match of it. .

Yes, i was being facetious (as usual) about him. There are many times when criticism of promoters here is seen by some here as excessive. But they are so often ones who reinforce, by their own actions, the negative view of them as being really quite reasonable.

It seems almost inconceivable that any promoter is getting enough people through the turnstiles to hold that view. In fact, if there is a promoter in such an enviable position. That would surely mark the guy out, wouldn't it?

I don't think Wednesday is an option for the PL is it?

I did not say that I wanted the old tac sub rules reinstated today. It's time has passed. I did not say that I wanted the fans interests to override everything else. The double point tactical ride was a ridiculous invention at its point of creation. And it still is today. The introduction of the match points system was a brilliant way of dealing with the issue of keeping interest in matches going. The 'Joker' should never have had a place in a serious sport.

How trite. And so representative of exactly the attitude that has got to where we are today.

All correct. 1. For the promoters benefit. 2. For the riders benefit. Which are the only people to consider. No one else counts.