Grand Central

I agree completely. I think I have already nailed my colours to the mast ... I really dont like any type of pairs event. But what is this obsession with doing something extra in pairs events to 'encouraging team riding' ? We don't feel compelled to do that in league racing. After all, the team riding that really sets the pulse racing is (usually) a 5-1. As far as I am concerned ALL Speedway scoring whould be 3-2-1-0. A second and third is EQUAL to a win.. End of. Any contrivance that promotes the idea that winning a race is not the be all and end of Speedway is bonkers. It is a triumph of medoctracy with pairs settling for the minor places and giving up the race for the lead. That is not what we want happening race after race at a major championship The 21 heat 7 pairs format does at least allow the normal scoring to be used and mostly gives a decisive result. And a simple match race decides a tie. But is a bloody stupid subsitutue for the SWC.

By which time -when it is too late - they will see how perceptively correct us naysayers were all along.They will bin the whole idea. Then attempt to bring back the SWC. And spin the whole cock-up off as some sort of triumph. We have all been here so often before. 6 rider races, two-day world finals, major championships being held among cow pats in the wilderness. Time after time these so called passionate numpties get the chance to beggar about with this Sport. And then Sod off leaving the mess they have created behind. It really does make one sick.

You raise an excellent point on the pairs scoring. It is another annoying part of this daft format of Speedway. Personally I would NEVER change from 3-2-1-0 for any match of any type. And I absolutely hate those pairs events that do 4-3-2-0. But chances are that with folk who actually think Jokers are a good idea in a World Championship Final and have forced them on us for over 15 years. Just about ANYTHING is possible with this latest folly.

I cannot believe that you are perpetuating this daft train of thought. On the almost monthly 'Tai is an Aussie' thread we end up with people pointing out that 'Jason Crump was born in Bristol' or 'Mark Loram was born in Malta'. All of no relevance whatsoever. And here you are doing something very simlar. Really, really weird.

All the arguments in favour of ANY deal to get the sport on TV are as valid as always, especially for the long term position of the sport ... BUT The specific terms set out by BT look as if they are just impossible for any promoter to sign up for when they considered their costs for 2018. No one can realistically expect them to be able to deliver on a guaranteed 7 GP men. The costs would be immensely greater than anything that could be recouped from sponsorship or gate receipts. £3000 would not come close to the costs of putting on a TV meeting AND reducing admission to £10. Especially when you were committed in the contract to giving all the 'plum' meetings to that arrangement. I have always thought, and said here, that BT would be able to offer a poor 'take it or leave it' deal. Which they so definitely have. And I had been of the opinion that 'taking it' would turn out to be the correct move But if Flagrag is correct with the extra commitments being demanded of the promoters. They are just asking the impossible. So 'leaving it' will be the only POSSIBLE decision the Promoters can make, I don't think BT have left them with much choice, I'm afraid.

I should stop digging.

Yup. And Speedway has forced me to eat some pretty dodgy 'puddings' in my time. Bags first dibs on the Alka Seltzer.

Actually having read what Castagna says and the other stuff about it in The Star today. It doesn't even look as if it is going to be ANYTHING like a World Pairs Championship of any type either. That is a total red herring. They have plans for something much worse. This 'Speedway of Nations' sounds like a right 'Horlicks' of a competition. The sort that is dreamed up by a committee with the remit of trying to please the all the lowly, pointless federations at the expense of the core Speedway world. In the end we have to suffer a 'push-me-pull-you' abortion that should have been binned at conception. Pleasing absolutely no one. And having to be dumped as quietly as possible at the next Annual Junket.. A bit like Promotion and Relegation in British Speedway. These folk are just not fit for purpose.

There is some bizarre logic going on here to try and make sense of this decision. Apparently, no one would want to run the SWC in the UK whilst Rosco and Woffinden don't see eye to eye. But, in the same breath, the mouth watering prosepect of this crappy Pairs is that Woffinden would be riding. How come with Rosco just being reappointed GB manager ? Those trying to look on the bright side are living in hope that the SWC will be back on aternate years. Just grasping at any straw that we can put up with a pigs ear for the other alternate years providing we still can look forward to the better one next year. That is the best way this decision can be 'swallowed', really? It has been well established that often early rounds of the SWC are not well attended but the Final tends to sell out. Instead of rejigging the formula or coming up with workarounds to solve that conundrum we throw the baby out with the bath water. And PR tells us that there will not just be a crappy Pairs Final but there will be more meetings than that. Why does anyone think those other rounds will be any more 'money spinners' than in the SWC. Is it not just as likely that they will be financial millstones to the organisers just the same But 'hey ho' it's all going fine because the memory of Barry Briggs and his 13 points at Rybnik 46 years ago lives so strong in all our minds. Mind you, 1971 was a year more remembered for the crushing victory by the Poles. A repeat of which would, at least, restore a littlle justice in the circumstances.

Cannot argue with your enthusiasm, Phil. And i have no wish to see anything in the Sport fail. But the loss of the SWC is pretty tragic. I'm afraid Pairs have always been 'pants' to me. ESPECIALLY that malformed hybrid three-man-pair version of recent years. An oxymoron produced by a moron. But what does my/our view count ? Zippo.

. Unfortunately that must be true. But it is no laughing matter. is it ? What a dreadful bunch of administrators we are plagued with. Nationally and internationally. It really does sap one's enthusiasm so much.

Well you can take my testimony alongside so many here. If it makes you happy. Probably the worst decision that BSI have made. They have the crown Jewels in their possession. And bin them for a tin-pot rehash of the One-Sport crap. Shame on them.

Yes. It is really quite amazing that we have all been examining minute detail arising from the already miniscule moves at the AGM. Whilst ignoring the big bad smelly Elephant in the BSPA room. The Sky money has gone. And what is to replace that massive gaping hole in the finances of the PL clubs, in particular ?. On that we have had no news at all. One thing is for certain. If I were a rider, a shale supplier, a Landlord or any other creditor of a 2018 Speedway promoter who cannot answer that conundrum. Then I would want to be paid up-front. And in cash.

Then why the hell are you cluttering up threads if you don't give a toss ? That is just perverse.

And what a bizarre opinion it is in that case. Maths is not some alien concept that would be of no interest to youngsters. Why would you think it was? Just because it's not for you ? The maths involved in Speedway can be fascinating and entertaining. Why remove something that could be a draw for youngsters if deployed properly. For me it has always been an essential part and it gave me hours of interest in my younger years. Our future, especially post Brexit, will depend on the next generations being enthused by sujects like Maths. And to putting that knowledge into practice. Please stop judging people, and especially the youth, by your own very low standards.

Which backs up my point completely. Those that have no interest in any of the issues surrounding averages and the rules to which they relate should keep quiet. And leave it to those who understand. They could then just go along in their uninformed, blinkered way, and 'enjoy the racing'. But they won't. They keep coming on threads like this and making daft points about the very subject they don't understand. Seemingly JUST to display their ignorance. .

I just wish the forum could employ a 'maths monitor'. Those with a self-evident blindspot for statistics could then be taken away for their own safety. Where they can be helped to understand that they must SHUT UP and stop posting things about averages. Year after year, month after month they just insist on doing this time after time. Is this what it is like at a BSPA AGM ? Like a remedial class for people that really believe they understand stuff when they so clearly don't ?

That would be tragically consistent with the way the BSPA PR tends to work. That is true. In addition the BSPA website refers to it as "... rolled back the years by bringing back the traditional tactical substitute when a team is six points or more" And the Speedway Star says a "... return to tactical substitutes" Are they just being disingenuous with the false inference that we are returning to past usage of tac subs. And are just conning us again ? Or do they really mean it ? Tac Subs were ONLY EVER used in a system that alowed multiple use. NEVER anything other. Why the hell can't they just make stuff clear ?

For some reason when I see photos from their 'formal' occasions. I am always reminded of those reality shows dedicated to showing Travellers' weddings. Their menfolk always looked strangers to business attire. Lucky Heather anyone ?

I'd say a pretty brilliant AGM for the Chamionship. They have not lost any numbers to the 'lure' of the Premiership. Instead gave gained an extra team. The fixed nights have given the graveyard slot Mondays to the PL and with the Thursday night tracks sticking with the Championship they have retained that excellent midweek choice for them all as well. It means that the Chamionship has the excellent spread of Thursday through the entire weekend. Kerching! The Single eight pointer in the PL may 'feel' like the right move to their owners, so as to try and distribute them evenly around the teams. But it sends out the wrong message. It just reeks of 'dumbing down' the product there. Even when it isn't. The unrestricted element in the Championship sounds do much better to sell to folk as a success. On top of it all the fixed nights will allow almost everyone from the PL to ride in the Championsip without those fixture clashes that so blighted last season. I cannot see why anyone was daft enough to choose to stay in the PL. They've given the best stuff away!

Have just read what PR describes as an 'epistle' from David Gordon in this week's Star. It is difficult to see what is different in giving a page over to a one-sided rant by Mr Gordono this week to giving Peter Collins a similar platform, without counter-argument, just two weeks prior. And yet that article was almost unanimously judged to have been a flawed journalistic piece and an editorial mistake to publish in that way, In the PC article at least an issue that most of the general Speedway public had not heard about was being raised. Whereas PR acknowledges that there is really no new information of substance in Mr Gordon's most recent sermon. On a different note I was glad to read the excellent in depth article by Brian Burford on the Carlise Tyres controversy of the 1980s. It was particularly good to hear from some of the people involved in this episode and their illuminating memories of events from well over thirty years ago. Including those of a quite 'on-the-ball' Peter Collins.

No Tsunami was reffering to the fact that none of the Division 1 tracks would not release a second heat leader from their 1994 squads to Boro which was needed to staff the 'promoted' Division Two sides for 1995 and give reasonably equal teams. Shane Parker was as good as they got and he was not a heat leader at Ipswich 1994, he was about 4th in their averages. He obviously became a heat leader and number 1 alongside the other two by default as they were just the top three in a very weak side. No where near the averages, or standard, of heat leaders of other sides in the expanded league of 1995.

Yes I understand that those would be the issues that require clarification. But not what the answers would need to be to change BT's mind on the price they would be prepared to pay My pondering was do BT Sport actually have any intention of offering any more money even if the Promoters 'pushed the boat out' ? And went for radical change ? Would they really put any more money on the table for half a dozen SGP riders being tempted? Would they prefer one big league, a 12 team top league or the same old same old 8/9 team Premiership, and avoid the Championship like the plague? {Again) Are they troubled by Guests ? Did they find the Promotion -Relegation charade a deal breaker, or deal-clincher ? Do they give a flying fig about doubling up, does the Joker really vex them ? Or do they not really give a toss about any of that as they just want to sign up for something that is very, very cost effective. But could be pretty much identical to 2017 for all THEY really care. As none of it affects viewing figures and revenue, one jot ? They just need something to fill Monday Nights with Live stuff that gets decent figures for minimum outlay. My thinking has always been that they know that they could get probably get a deal for next to nothing beyond the production costs. Considering the poor bargaining position of the BSPA. Take it leave it would work, surely?

And so will all of us.There are some choices they could make that will make a real difference to my attendances in 2018. Any ideas what sort of answer to those various questions would sway BT decisions ? In either direction ? Is there actually ANYTHING that the promoters could choose to do that would get them to part with some cash? Or is that a lost cause ?

I fail to see what legitimate criticism one could offer towards an invited guest expecting the courtesy of a 'plus one' . It is the norm in all walks of life and event/function I have attended. To not do so is just bad manners..