Grand Central

This is an excellent point. The constantly advocated panacea of an independent body is bogus. The mere fact of it being independent would not produce the BETTER decision making needed. Any individual picked is JUST as likely to have advocated and pursued policies identical to those of the BSPA. Incrementally year by year I don't think there is any liklehood that we would suddenly have hit upon a genius to help, where they collective of the promoters failed. Just-like-that. The problems are much deeper than such simplistic thinking I'd need to hear something pretty revolutionary from such a guru to believe they would be any better at all tbh.

And hilariously this is all supposed to depend on receiving funds from local government to finance the operation. When you read up on the goings on with Ipswich Council .... I imagine that you could find the Burghers of Togliatti to be bastions of probity in comparision.

You are correct about all the Cardiff attributes you list. And are right to identify the horror show from Blunsdon last night ... But the extra Cardiff attendees I know of would not be going to Swindon on a Monday night even if they were serving up the best Speedway fayre ever produced. They still wouldn't be interested. Just to make clear that is offering no defence of the shameful nature of last night. Cardiff is just different in ever so many many ways for them.

Set for Glasgow just the week after next ... on August 4 https://www.glasgowtigers.co/woffinden-doyle-go-head-head-glasgow/ Bold move by the Facennas ... Hope it is a big success

A large number of the Cardiff 'extras' are from extended family ... My wife and her son & hispartner do Cardiff most years but don't/won't go to anything else. But that is not really down to the Speedway ... More due to the weekend away in Cardiff we tend to have with the meeting just part of that. I get the feeling that is quite a widespread situation. Also tend to see quite a few people who don't have a local track of their own any more but have got into the habit of making the annual trip to the GP. I don't think many of the extras i see or know if would ever be candidates for other British Speedway events though, no matter what the BSPA do... Cardiff has created its own niche ... Totally separate from anything else. EDIT ... one thing I already know is that whilst I am totally happy with a September date i may well have to go alone next year as my fickle 'extras' have already expressed their doubts... We shall see nearer the time.

Ah you went to the wrong school then ... I won't tell you what we studied in Biology ... But I was top of the class in the practical lessons.

Thankfully ever since I was at school and did a subject called 'History' I have understood the possibility of knowing facts about a time before i was born. Books (or even magazines) are a good source of this sort of information.

Err, Yes. But he's going back quite a bit. First Saturday Final was 1956 I believe.

Good to hear that from someone who was there. The TV people didn't seem to know what was going on so difficult to judge for us back home. Mind you BSI have usually gone to town on very innovative parades at Cardiff anyway. It has been rare for them to send the riders trundling out. They have done some real spectaculars down the years that have worked really well.

Us (enforced) TV viewers were given regular long-lens views of the man in the box last night. He looked a very lonely figure. In need of a friend or assistant. A co-pilot at least to take over the controls once it was beyond him. A serious note. On the (fortunately) rare occasions when a Speedway fatality occurs the referee is called upon as signficant witness at the inquest. On Saturday the referee judged that Robert Lambert was the cause of Jason Doyle crashing. I have yet to hear anyone concur with that opinion. It is rare to have such a unanimous view against a decision. But it would be his word that the Coroner would hear if the worst had happened, in that race or any other. We should remember that having a competent referee is not just desirable for a good race meeting; it is an absolute necessity.

The parade didn't work at all on TV ... It looked as if there had been no coordination between the organisers and TV people at all ... I just assumed it was tons better in the Stadium. Live. But perhaps not.

Last night's refereeing performance at the British GP must go down as one of the worst in the history of the SGP. He had one difficult decision to make all night but still managed to mess up several others that were straightforward. Live .. these incidents can produce the tensions and shout-out moments that add to the controversy, atmosphere and buzz. As the ref becomes a pantomime villain of sorts, he can become part of the show. But watching on TV .... Less so. You don't tend to get that 'extra dimension' you can at the track from such an incompetent in the box. It just irritates the hell out of the viewer and the injustice created festers more. I was begging for some FIM white coated medics to come along at the interval and escort the poor man back to his facility. Some one needed to help him get out of there for his own good.

All of them ... They will have the intelligence to understand the context in which the joke was made.

The voice of sanity.

It seems obvious that no one has had a change of mind on this subject even with hindsight. Usually it does not matter if people have different opinions to me. But in this case the fact that those actually involved remain totally obvlivious to the mistake they made means they will do the same stupid thing again. In those circumstances I will be left with only one course of action. To do "A Trump" And change my National allegiance to support the Russians. At least they understand the bloody rules.

Yes they can. Not out of choice but that is what happens with 'feelings'. I have been one of them myself. My allegiance changed dramatically in 1986. I went from being an ultra committed Halifax fan of 15 years standing to being a very semi-detatched Bradford attendee in one winter. Being born and brought up in Halifax meant that Bradford was always 'somewhere else'. Not my town. Not my team. My team had gone. Of course my allegiance was severed all too permanently by KC 's death. So I will never know what would have happened over the ensuing years if he had lived. But within a couple of years i found a new Team at Belle Vue and left the Dukes behind. And was able to enjoy October 25, 1993 as a true born again Aces fanatic ... at Wolves with very little passing ...But a packed high energy crowd with so much at stake in Every race and last hear decider which we won. Making it the best meeting i have ever attended despite the racing being mediocre at best. The celebrations in the bar that night were about the team ... Not the track

Well. I would have thought that obvious. The 'artificial' contrived nature of what was being done meant that they were not teams with any real identity left once they were being run miles away from their 'home'. Having such good 'lcoal brand' transplanted elsewhere was/is just daft. People from Stoke wanted to see Stoke. Branding them as such may have worked; possibly.

Unfortunately the post of mine you quoted was one trying to counter a couple of others who were proposing that it was ONLY wholesale changes to almost every track that would drive the punters through the door. Hence my rather absolutist tone about teams. BUT I notice that I did say team 'comes above everything else' ... That is a phrase that is meant to recognise there ARE multiple factors (just that IMHO 'team' is top of that list). It is NOT a phrase used to indicate that it is ONE single factor alone to the exclusion of any other. The truth is I do agree with much of what you say.

TBH I do not think that the product is dire. That is really your view, not mine. But at the same time I do not think that there IS ANY specific thing that can be done to to 'attract people'. That, I fear, may be an unsurmountable problem. People are just not receptive to any message on the Speedway front. And most of the reasons for that are actually nothing to do with the internal workings of the sport itself. They are much more to do with the seismic generational changes that have occured in the 'outside world'; of which most Speedway folk seem to be oblivious. One thing is for certain. It does not lead me to believe ANY of the nonsense you keep talking about altering 'tracks' as being any form of answer either. Making the best of what we have still has some milage in saving something of this sport. But that prospect will be lost if people listen to the fairy story that it is the tracks that need changing to drive people through the turnstiles. That is is just fiction.

Really??? I think you are totally wrong. All team sport is like this and just as much today as at any time in the past. In all team sports people have THEIR 'Team' and that comes above everything else. I dont think I am saying anything perculiar; and certainly nothing that is at odds with how youngsters think. Just today there was a table in the papers showing that all the PL Fottball clubs Kit Pricing for the new season ... all costing upwards of £80 for Kidsand some double for adults To be dressed like this years team. It matters that much to be like your heroes that is what you pay. I know Footbal 'is different' in many respects. But ALL team sports are about team loyalty.... if they are getting it right. Tuning into that is the future. The only one. Worrying about the 'track' and 'racing' will get us absolutely nowhere.

I cannot say how much I disagree with your thinking. I am not basing this on ANY experience of Poland, Polish people or their similarties with the British. Iam basing it on BRITISH people. And how it has always been and always will. We want to support a team (and individuals, true) but a Team is King. We want it to win. And it is the 'joint experience' of an entusiastic crown willing that to happen that gives the buzz FAR FAR more than the 'racing'. I've only been watching since the mid 1960s, mainly at The Shay and much as people want to wax lyrical about the quality of racing from the past. That was not what got me going every week. Not one bit. IT WAS THE TEAM. And the riders; all of which I could still name for every single year. The racing has always been a side issue ... they make memories true, but the real BIG memories are about the atmosphere and tension relating to the TEAM/RIDERS and whether we could pull off a win or get another 5-1. Scrape or storm it. It was alll about the 'DUKES'(Team/Riders) NOT the bloody stadium, track or bikes.

IMHO Dean has got it spot on and this understanding of the fan's identification with a local, consistent team that it THEIRS is the imperitive for the future. IMHO totally wrong.

Hancock £50 LESS Doyle £50 LESS Holder £50 MORE Janowski £50 MORE

Just when it was safe to forget what an absolute mess-up GB made of the tactics. You have reopened the can of worms. No change in my opinion. I imagine that Painter et al will have additional media puppets on board and Roscoe kitted out in a waistcoat next time to solve all the problems. Rather than just getting someone with a brain to understand the tactics required to pull off a win that was eminently possible.

Naughty. But HIS choice, again.