g13webb

I think you're being too specific in saying that Swindon and Wolves reaped the benefits because they had SGP riders. When thinking back, Both Freddie and Jason were in the teams at the start of the season, but it wasn't until the promoters made changes lower down the order did both teams start winning regularly. Of cause GP riders are important, but so are the rest of the team. It is only when you are winning does the crowd increase, and that would happen whether they were GP riders or not. Belle Vue is a prime example of that....... At the end of the day the costs have to be met . If clubs can afford these GP riders, then go for it. It not then they have to cut the material to suit.

Is there any whispers of riders for next year yet? Jorgensen, and Kerr seemed nailed on but that's all I've heard... No doubt we will have the 'Will he or Won't he' saga from Lambert , though as usual, he'll sign..

If i had the choice of Chris Holder or Andersen I'd have Hans every time... and that being sensible....

Nobody has moaned about Buster more than I. Although I still wish he would be more transparent with his behaviour and his ideas, I feel as a club we have to be appreciative, we have somebody who wants Speedway to continue. In this day and age who could blame any promoter walking away from the financial obligations he has. It must create a tremendous drain on they energy, their confidence and their standard of life in general.. No, I don't think Buster is the ideal person to have at the helm of any ship. He wants total control, and always has his cards close to his chest. It has to be done Busters way.. We may never win the title, but we should be grateful of always having a team to support...... No doubt, Buster will attend the AGM with many hats on. . Promoter, Chairman, Committee Member, Track Grader, Club Owner, General Dogsbody etc etc

Points allowing, I'm sure that team would be amply strong enough to get in the Play-offs If it was allowed it would be a no-brainer not to go with it....

The reason I feel at home at the AFA is that most of the clientele are old farts...

Yes many times. But to be truthful there isn't much left of the Motorbike circus we all enjoyed back in the heydays of 60's , 70's and 80's.. Speedway was just a small part of the ample meetings we could fulfil our addiction. We had Motorcycle Scrambles on each and every Sunday. from local events to big national meetings held at the many race tracks we had then. Road Racing was also very popular with meetings most weekends. We use to swap and change depending where the meetings were held or how important there were. Speedway was important virtually every Saturday night. Home or away we always went.. It wasn't that the racing was better or faster, but it was more entertaining and relevant. The riders were part of a team and hated to lose. The opposing team was the enemy. Brilliant enthusiasm and atmosphere. the crowds were big and noisy. These nights were a million miles away from what we have now.. But that all we have left. Moto-Cross Scrambles have all but died, they are nothing compared to the sport they once were. Same with Road Racing, apart from the BSB series, there are a few meetings scattered around the country, but nothing to compare with the locality we once enjoyed.... so speedway is the only alternative open to my life long addiction of bike racing...... Frequenting these meeting like I do, I notice there are many old folk like me, coming to watch live action, but actually, we are all living in the past, hoping we can relive those wonderful times. I sometimes wonder who will replace us on the terraces when we become too old to attend anymore....

Each year that comes round I always have high hopes of a decent side. During each of our years back in the Elite, I thought this could be the one when all our dreams came true. NKI had been prominent in all of those thoughts when we seem to have all the basses covered. One year we were 30 points clear until the gods conspired to declare war on everything we had done. When Points were deducted,and the team savaged by injuries, it throw a life line to other less deserving teams to that precarious title... So we have moved on from there, and am more grounded in the thoughts of the teams that are assembled. From previous years we have learnt the team at the start of the year means nothing. Riders are dropped like a pin if and when its deemed fit. Loyalty means nothing today and fans bases are pushed aside like confetti, all in the conviction of winning. Having been brought up to do everything the correct way, I'm not so convinced this 'win at all cost' is the right attitude. I believe it distance more fans than it gains. But what do I know.... With an old head on an even older body, I remember the good times, when a team was selected for the whole season, and there was not a ringer to be seen anywhere...

Nothing would surprise me what they are thinking.... One of the biggest problems that exist in our speedway is the contemptuous way the fans are treated by the promoters. We are treated like the enemy and everything is kept secret in fear we could pass an opinion. There are so many fans who have left the sport because of this attitude of them an us. You would have thought the BSPA would realise we are all on the same side and want the same as they do. I thought when Buster was made Chairman, things would change. There would be far more transparency, where the fan would know far more. But unfortunately he's just the same at the rest..... It little wonder the fans lose interest .....

As a seasoned SGP rider I would imagine he ought be given a 9 average, but what's the betting he'll be given something stupid like a 6 or probably 7 . That seems to be the aim of most manager's, getting a ringer on a low average, and forgetting all the damage this practice does...

And I have been blaming them all these years for our crap roads.... My apologies to the ROMANS ... They must have been laid before them then..... My views are not meant to be negative, merely based on the reality of this present day, mostly at Kings Lynn. Although through the season I do travel to some away venues, I don't go often enough to pass an accurate assessment of how fans are treated. I do talk with those fans and many have axes to grind. You'll be amazed how many are unhappy with the way the sport has gone.. I like your comments about Groups 1, 2, and 3 and feel there is a million ways this sport could be promoted . I used to own a season ticket for many years , but now there is no point spending out big money to save a few quid, Missing just one meeting and you're on a loser, and that not counting the double headers. We the fans are treated like mugs.... I wish I could turn the clock back when speedway was the place to be, 1000's through the gate, the place was heaving, the racing was always exciting, and the meeting lasted all night. We often lost those tight matches, but it didn't matter. It was roll on to next week. Now we go home early, and feel robbed of the money it cost.... if it wasn't for the memories we wouldn't have much left...,

It is very difficult to see past the costing of decent standard speedway. To retain anything like the standard we once had we have to attract more paying customers. Paying customers can be grouped into 3 categories:- 1, Diehard Supporters who go every week. 2, Old supporters, who once use to go, but don't anymore... 3, The general public who have never been to a meeting in their life. Taking Group 1, These are the main bread providers, fans who live and die the sport and go each week. They enjoy the excitement, the environment, the atmosphere. They can also remember when times were good and the crowds were far bigger than they are now. They want to hang on to what we once had, but in truth it will never be the same as it was in the past. They know all the top rides and can relate to the quality they provide. They have seen the standard of the sport drop and want to hang on to what there is left.... Group 2, These were once the same as group 1, but over time their support has disappeared. They have seen the standard drop, and the prices going up, and felt they have had enough. They have seen the number of races dwindle, more breaks and feel no connection with the club. The VFM aspect has all but gone. Group 3, This is the open question, Can the sport appeal to the General Public. Even with the lack of promoting, I still feel that anybody, that was interested in bike racing, would take it upon themselves to locate and watch. So one has to assume most of those in this group has, at some time been to a meeting. The fact that the sport failed to retain their interest, indicates they didn't like what they saw. It is difficult to see where these ' More Customers' are coming from. Group 1 is an Elite fan, dwindling in numbers but diehard to the end. But they are a dying breed that will continue to disappear. Group 2, is a lost cause. The promotors had the opportunity to look after these valued fans but failed miserably. It will be very difficult to entice them back again. Which leaves us only with Group 3. For the sport to stand any chance of survival, it has to appeal to new fans. To do that, we need to put on a better show that will generate excitement and atmosphere at a cost most can afford. These new fans will not know of riders like Dolye, Holder, Woffy, so to pay top dollar for these would be of little importance. The product needs to be simple and straight forward. no stupid rules. One rider one team, someone the fans can relate with as their rider. We need to go back in time when the sport was so simple and appealing... The comments JC posted was so constructive and necessary. I don't agree with all he wrote about averages, but the majority was spot on. Unless we can find a recipe to restructure this sport , we haven't many years left. The sooner we start planning the better.

Again you are taking the words out of the context of how it was written. Unless the BSPA can find a major sponsor, the sport as we know it, will be gone. Most of the clubs would cease to operate and that would include Wolves........ Some people don't seem to grasp the importance of the situation.

Well I saw plenty of sarcasm directed at Kings Lynn Stars, in your original post. Going on to say we would be the only team to benefit from such rules. I have never agreed with all JC said in his ideas, but the fact he was prepared to come up with ideas, was to me very proactive. You obviously cherry pick the parts you don't like but miss the most important piece of the post about financial worry the sport faces. He went on to identify the massive problems the sport has, when the TV money stops next year, but all you seem interested in is what's going to happen to Ben Barker, or who is going to be riding for Wolves. It all honesty these issues are small fry and mean very little. If the sport cannot find another sugar Daddy (SKY), the sport as we now know it, will be gone forever....,

What a wonderful view from a seasoned poster. Your sarcasm precedes you. Its is little wonder so many clubs have fallen by the wayside with attitudes such as this. The sport of ours, is in dire need of restructuring to a sustainable level. When an ex promoter suggests some ideas, where some of his thoughts are very feasible, you use it as an opportunity to make fun of a club that has worked over 50 yrs providing entertainment for people like yourself.. You, like many others on here, think just of your own little world. 'I'm alright jack' attitudes achieves nothing. I suggest you use your time more constructively and come up with alternative ideas to save our sport, and leave the sarcasm in the playground. NB. It is said Sarcasm is the lowest part of wit, and is not a virtue people would want on their persona.

I too have travelled the length of the country following this sport. But just because I can afford this expense, doesn't blind me from the facts that many have great difficulty in affording these costs. As many as 25 people in my village alone, have stopped going to speedway like they once did. Too expensive, they said, Not enough racing and too many breaks. No atmosphere and little excitement said others. The appeal the sport once had has, over the years, been systematically destroyed Obviously you meet up regularly with these people with their heads in the sand. Probably its time to look around and smell the coffee for what it actually is, instead of solely looking at ones own existence...

Yes, I am an ardent football fan and was fortunate to have played for many years at a respectable level. To answer your question, of course I would like to go an watch Chelsea, but at £50 a time, it would only happen a special occasions. Swindon, at half the price would be more affordable to support each week, but then again, I've seen some terrific games at non-league level at a far cheaper option. Many people on here, seem unaware of the tight financial restraints many of the public have to survive on. When the majority of people living in this area is earning less than £20k a year, paying £50 to watch your favourite team is way out of reach. One of the biggest problems in our country is the divide between the high and low earners. It seems to get greater each year....

You must be a man with deep pockets to say it 'doesn't matter to put prices up'. You go on about fans walking away because the product is weaker, but the fact remains, fans stay away for many reasons, but cost and VFM would be the main protagonists views.... I was fortunate to attend many Wembley World Finals when 100k was the norm. Now we have the pleasure of a solitary meeting, in our wonderful stadium at Cardiff, yet we struggle to get 40k in attendance. If as you suggest we had a stronger league, the attendances would be of small increase but the cost would be sky high. The sport has to reach out for new fans. To do that we have to make it more attractive, we have to make it more affordable. Failing that they won't even come through the door. If you asked Joe Bloggs in the street, whether he would prefer to see top riders at £20 a head or lesser riders at £10, he would always go for the cheapest option. Such is life....

You dont need to be a Mathsmatician, A scientist or a Professor to see our sport has been on life support for several years. Of course we want to see the top boys ride, but our attendances don't provide enough capital to pay their fees. As it stands at the moment, the two options we have is either, Lower the standard of riding, or double the attendance fees. Its that simple. Promoting the sport better, would induce more support, but would that be enough to survive ?? The sport is in dire need of restructuring, and anybody who cant see this must be blind. We need cheaper options in League racing, enabling riders to have less expensive bikes and promotors cheaper to promote. so for the Fans, it is cheaper to attend. Gone are the days when you see F1 drivers racing saloon cars, or MotoGP aces at your local road race track. This sport has to be divided. Let the SGP use these expensive machine and lets have a cheaper option for our league racing....... It is wrong that even at the lowest level of league racing they are riding super tuned machinery. It's no wonder the sport is dying....

Sure is a big reality check John !! , but something like this has been coming for some time. Most meetings I go to, I look round and see barely a few hundred people, wondering how the hell does this pay, when in fact it doesn't. The situation is, we have promoters like Buster, doing everything possible to make the track rideable,to get the meeting on, and riders finding any excuse not to race, a scenario built purely on the financial burden. Riders today want way too much for little in return. they have no respect for their team, their team mates, or the fans. All they think about is themselves and how much they can get, without one thought of the sport, of the future... or who is going to pay for it... I like your idea John, It makes perfect sense to take control costs, and for riders to get back to reality. But most of all its a sustainable program, one that can prosper in the years ahead. What we have now is just a recipe of disaster . The BSPA cant continue to bury their heads in the sand.... NB.. It would be interesting to find out what the Clubs 'Breakeven Figures' of attendance are, and how many of our clubs achieved that....

Cheers J,C. , for the insight of speedway finance. One can easily see why the sport is struggling like it is. This is a prime example where the costs need to be cut to suit the material. It is crazy to think we only have one level of machinery and expect small league attendances to fund these expensive machines. For this sport to survive, we need to separate the SGP as the Elite and operate league racing on a cheaper scale. Failing that, the sport will just die... Back in mid 70's when Neil Street brought his 4 valve to Lynn , Terry Betts said the sport cant afford that kind of expense. Admission would have to increase and the fans would have to bear the blunt.... Causing many to stop coming...... What a pity they didn't listen to him.....

I have no doubt Holder will be back at Poole next year, and will show he can ride the track far better than he made us believe he can. .... Up until last year I had the utmost respect for Holder as a man and as a rider, but unfortunate his behaviour sure squashed those ideas. Looking back now, I believe his form was calculated, knowing he would be back in Dorset next year. Also him saying how much he disliked riding the AFA was a smoke screen purely to justify his poor showing. The bit that really got to me was he showed no appreciation to the fans at all. Just because he was at loggerheads with Buster, doesn't explain why he dismissed the fans like he did. We all know had that match in July been against any other club, but Poole, there would have been no problem....

I appreciate that, but Buster surely sees how many fans turn up with a bit of promoting Nobody likes to see what happened at the Poole match, and as much as I disliked the behaviour of some riders, I don't think Buster was blameless. The only way a team can fulfil its potential is when everybody is in harmony. When you start arguing, there will only be one outcome.........Its a pity all those concerned didn't realise that.....

Having read all the posts of this thread, I am amazed that each and everyone has missed the biggest problem that exists in this sport of ours... Some of the posters has aired good ideas, some have been really innovative. But each missing the biggest problem our sport has. We are in desperate need of a structured approach that details every aspect of the sport to be set in stone enabling everybody to know what lies ahead every year. We want each of our 3 leagues of predetermined numbers, to be run competitively each year, with a natural grading of abilities. . We want a detailed racing format that is used in all leagues. We want a set design of fixtures, again used by every league..... I find it scandalous, that in this day and age, Team Manager's can't assemble their team because they don't know the restraints of the team points limit. These figures should be set in stone and the same applies each year. I see many announcements of riders signing for foreign teams next year but we are still waiting on the BSPA to set a limit. Each year, all of us, ( the Fans, the Riders, the Promoters) are waiting for the AGM to declare how we are going to run the following year. How amateur is that ? This attitude does nothing to induce enthusiasm nor sustainability, Why should Sponsors get involved when we don't know what is happening next year.... It is my belief everything should be set in stone, so each and everyone will have knowledge of what is happening. Any changes to the rules should be announced 8 months prior, and receive full agreement before being implemented into stone..... I am sure if the sport was run as a professional and sustainable business, it would attract more fans and better riders. We could look to the future with optimism instead of the shambles we see at present......

I live only a dozen mile or so from the track, and regularly see big yellow posters advertising Stock Cars racing at Saddlebow Road. I find this surprising seeing the Speedway never gets the same treatment. especially as both run by the same person. I'm sure there would be more support from the locals if the fans knew when meetings were actually on. Now that we don't have meeting each week, fans need to be informed when these meeting are to be run... Years ago we always had a mention in the local paper. A small report on the last meeting and a advert for the next one. It seems the Chapman promotions wants to keep the running of speedway at LYNN, a big secret and rely sole on the hard core fans, which by the way are dwindling each year... The way the fans were treated last year, I'm amazed there are any fans left.......