g13webb

I hear what you say, but Lee wouldn't have been offered a place in the 1977 series from his performances in 1976. 1976 was his first year in senior racing, sure he was good but his average of only 7point something wouldn't have been enough to warrent an invitation. Obviously I don't agree with these wild card and invitations , it opens the door for bias opinions, I prefer if everything and everyone are treated in the same fair manner. Thats the part that I'm totally against. No one should be given a wild card entry after they have failed to qualify in the normal way. All riders should earn the right to complete.

Although non of those actually won the title as an 18 yr old, Michael Lee created the opportunity to win it as a 17 yr old. It not the fact that he won or didn't win, but the opportunity was there to achieve it. That wouldn't happen today unles you were given a wildcard or invitation, and then only if your face fits.......

No not all, She likes all them . The only thing she draws a line about is watching Man Utd. she can't stick them. No seriously, Its the saturday night thing. She feels to watch sport on a sat night then it should be special. and not every SGP is that good. Note!! You added the boat race later... She wouldn't watch that,.... Not keen on the water.....

Ole Olsen has a lot to answer for…….. I can understand what Sidney says about the romance of the old’ World Finals, having been fortunate to go 7 finals, I count myself very priviledged to have sampled the wonderful atmosphere and excitement that is so evidents of those occasions . They were the pinnicle of every aspiration of a rider, everyone had the opportunity to be there with a chance of being Champion, and this is what made them so special. I appreciate that time moves on, and that new ideas take over. Ole was the advacate of the Grand Prix system. He wanting a scenario of the best riders racing for the world title, yeah I can understand his reasons, but once this SGP was implimented, the romance then goes out of the window. Because the idea was to have all the top riders racing all the time, this has in-effect created a closed shop syndrome. So each year we will have 13 of the previous years riders, racing around in a the same monotenous manner of each Grand Prix. There will always be those who agree or disagree with the merits of the SGP system. There will never be harmony amongst us all. There will be those who will argue which is best, there will be others who will be outspoken in their views, but at the end of the day it will make no difference. Nobody ever listens to the supporters. The organisers will carry on regardless making money from this Blue Riband event with skant concern for the sport its represents. Note!!! I was fortunate to marry a sport minded wife who joins me in watching many varied sports. But she has said on a Saturday night watching Sky, on many occassions, ‘We’re not watching this again, or , havent we seen this already’ . Her untrained eye thinks it’s the same week after week. Makes you think………….

Strange, your take on this perception. You pick out a period in time that suits your cause and then suggest it’s always liked that. The dominance of the "big five" highlights a period in time when 5 brilliant riders dictated the sport. They were far superior to the other riders at that time and their success rate had nothing to do with qualifying methods, purely down to their brilliance . Now we have a SGP system that is dictated by the qualification method which creates a closed shop scenario, so again, we are getting the same riders figuring in the championship all the time. The two periods in time are miles apart and two entirely different situations. Strange. You picked out a period of the 60’s but you don’t mention the 70’s and 80’s when the World Championships podium positions were far more open.

Good point !! Probably those who go on about todays stars and think that its great, will eventually realise just how much more quality we had years ago.

First, let me say that I’m not against the concept of the Grand Prix series, but I am against the organisation of it. . . The organisers have taken our Blue Riband event and turned it into a moneymaking machine that gives no reward back into our sport. There is no connection between the SGP and the respective leagues of the world and all it does is cause a fixture build-up by dominating most Saturday nights. People tuning into Sky on a Saturday night to see the SGP series are given a false impression that the speedway we see at our home venues is of a similar standard with world class riders. This is so far off the truth with only 4 riders racing in this country. The bread and butter world of league racing is where the sport needs to generate more interest. It needs a connection with the glamour of the SGP and this should be the first priority of the organisers. As pointed out already, by ‘Sidney’, I also believe the closed shop scenario is a joke. In response to that, ‘Oldace’ has said that by finishing in the top 8 one year is a form of qualification to the next year, agreed. But the wording is Wrong! Its not qualification, It’s a reward for the effort they made during the current series. ‘Hence the Closed Shop Syndrome’. You can’t run a series to find a World Champion, and run it as a qualifier at the same time. That’s ridiculous. Just another thing that is wrong with the organisation. Riders should be focusing all their attention on winning the title not thinking about accumulating enough points for the following year. I believe the SGP needs more structure, a qualification system that is set in stone and that each and everyone knows. We don’t want wild card entries, invitations, or so-called qualifying rounds, we want a system that is fair to all and simple to understand. (As I previously posted on another thread) My feelings of qualification to the GP series could be far better. The implication of which could have a far-reaching effect on our Elite League. I don’t believe it to be right that those riders who finish outside to the top three should have automatic qualification to the next series. My suggestion would be that, top three would go through to next years series, Joined by the top three in the averages from Poland, Denmark, Sweden and England. (If a rider qualifies from two leagues his place is allocated to the next rider on the list.). This would total 15 plus one extra as dominated by the hosts of each meeting. The effect of this would give the EL more appeal to the star riders, who at present choose to give it a miss. It would also give added insentative for whose riders, who race in league fixtures, some, without a ‘hope in hell’ of ever gaining qualification under the present system. It would form a connection between each league organisation and that of the world stage. It would create more doors of opportunity for the riders. No doubt, most of the top riders will still contest the series, as they do now. But it would illuminate the same riders racing ‘year in year out’ on the knowledge there’s always next year, even though some will never be good enough to be World Champion.

One of the big problems with today’s speedway is the connection between riders and supporters. This is all down to the lack of continuality of the team line-up. Years ago, we had riders who put everything into their club and became icons that everyone could connect with. People will say the point limits stop this from happening, but we have always had a point restriction and Rider Control in the past. This thread is about those riders who put the club first and therefore became BRILLIANT CLUB MEN. First rider I put in this category is : TERRY BETTS He started racing with Norwich before retiring , still very young. Then joined Kings Lynn as their star attraction in 1965. He was ever present until 1979. 14 years of solid service. He was Kings Lynn Speedway . When he went, the team spirit he inspired just disappeared. Getting rid of Bettsy, was said to be one of the worst decisions made by the club officials. I have no doubt there are many more riders that fits the bill

The experience riders of Hancock, Crump and Gollob will always be in the mix. and of those three, Hancock to be the most promenant. Herbie is blessed with that uncanny knack of gating when it matters, and because of that he will be a thorn in everyones ambitions. Hampel is my choice of top honours. I believe this is the year that he will become World champion after living in the shadow of Gollob in recent years. Only a fool would dismiss AJ, he's always on the pace and capable of winning any race. The younger riders will always be a force to be reckon with. Of those, I reckon Sayfutdinov and Holder will make the most inroads, into the differences that separate them from the top. Top 5 prediction. 1, Hampel; 2, AJ; 3 Hancock; 4 Sayfutdinov and 5 Crump.

My top five would be: 1. Michael Lee 2. Peter Collins 3. Kenny Carter 4. Malc Simmons 5. Dave Jessup All of which were at the top when the competition of British talent was at its peak. I would like to add a second list of British riders who I believe, deserves mentioning when talking of class riders. Riders who gave there all for their club and made us proud to be called British: 1. Nigel Boocock – Coventry 2. Terry Betts - Kings Lynn 3. Martin Ashby - Swindon 4. Dougie Wyer - Sheffield 5. Ray Wilson - Leicester

Hi Sidney, It ‘s strange that we have many simular views on many issues. Like you I’m also resigned to the fact that nothing will ever change and that speedway will continue on this downward spiral. But at least we can look back on our memories and recall all the wonderful times we’ve experienced. What changes would I like to see? There’s so many, where do you start? A. Sport to be governed by an Independent Body B. Nationwide marketing of the sport. C. Elite league reports in the National Press D. More effort to be made to encourage new talent. E. The league to be more preferential to British riders F. Qualification from the countries top leagues into SPG instead of this ‘Closed Shop’ These are just a few to start with. Hope you enjoy this new season. From all accounts you must be feeling optimistic of your teams chances this year. It’ll be good to see another team fighting for the title for a change.

Many years ago, I was sitting in the pits at Lynn talking with Terry Betts. The Stars had just managed to beat Newport by a few points but the topic was all about the new engines used by Phil Crump and Neil Street. Crump had scored a maximum and Street weighed in with paid 11 . It was the differences that was so evident in their machines, winning by 50yds or so. No one could get close to them. It was at that point that Bettsy said . 'The best thing that can be done with those bikes is to ban them forever.' We couldn't believe what he said. But he continued,' If they don't ban them now everyone will have to use them to be competitive, the costs will go sky high for the riders and that will be transferred to the fans. The fans wont be able to afford the added costs and will stay away. The speedway we know will be gone forever' How right he was.......

My original thoughts, were that his could be done in a period prior to the season starting, so not to create problems like that you said. Photo and flags given out to the kids with a family admission vouchure , say £25.00. I live in a small village probably 20 miles from the track, and when i mention Speedway, people are surprised. Some didn't even know there was a speedway track close by. So if there not aware of a track, what chance is there of them ever going to watch......... Advertising is only targeted to those who are interested. Never to the general public on a local level.......

Having followed speedway more years then I can remember, I’ve seen many changes and agree the sport has diminished both in stature and appeal. I don’t believe it’s a straight issue of this or that but a collection of so many things. Life has changed, there are far more directions now, to go for your entertainment, and probably cheaper too. Money has always an important issue, whatever time of life we look at. So yes I agree, the supporters want more for their money then just 15 heats of racing. I ask myself ‘Why only 15 heats now, instead of the old format of second halves’ and answering the question by elimination of theories. Is this, what the rider’s wants? - Probably. They can pack up early and go home. Is this, what the promoter’s wants? – Probably. No need to pay out extra money for second half races. Is this, what the supporter wants? - No. they don't want the night to end so early. So first priority; that needs to be addressed to keep the supporters interest longer, so they will go away happy and look forward to the next time. My own thoughts are that the riders have become too big, they are aware of the value they hold. Can’t blame them for that. But in this decaying sport, I believe they need to give more back then just turning up and riding, then off to the next meeting.. We need them to connect with the public, we want them to care about the future and help in the marketing on a local basis. There is so much more that could be done to promote interest. I’ve been around a long time. The blood in my veins has been replaced with Castrol R. No matters what happens to the rules I will always follow my love for speedway. I worry about the next generation of supporters, and realise it’s the youngster that has to be targeted. Nobody can do that better then the riders. Promoters accompanied by star riders on an organised trip round local schools showing video footage would be a start.

Whatever!!.. I hope your right and that he becomes World Champion, but his mindset needs to alter.....

You say he's a victim of the Polish 'one per club' rule, but it was his choice to ride there. He could have continued to ride for the same club as last year had he so wished, and also take part in the SGP. But again, that's his choice. You say he has 20 yrs ahead to concentrate on the WC, But time waits for no man, He could get badly injured next year and never be the same rider again. (Not wishing that on anybody , but there's always that possibility) Had he'd accepted the SGP invite this year and showed his obvious talent to the world, he would have assured his place in the series for the foreseeable future, and been able to pick and choose the teams he rode for. instead of which he continues to hold Holder's hand and will rely on a wild card entry for next year. Some choice......

No , neither do I. There are many brilliant riders that never go on to be World Champion. Looking at a video of Barry Briggs at the 83 WF, he spoke of what was needed to be a world champion. He said there were 16 riders here today, 12 of which are brilliant world-class riders, all capable of winning 5 races straight off. But when the pressure and importance of the occasion take effect, then probably, that 12 is reduced to 3 or 4. Being a brilliant rider is one thing but to be a World Champion: You need self belief in your ability and all those around you, You need to cut yourself off and channel everything you have to the cause, You need to totally believe you’re the best, even when going off a unfancied gate. He said there are not many riders who can do that. Then he went on to name those he thought were in that category. No one doubts Darcy’s a brilliant rider, spectacular and all that, but there seem to be someone inside making, to me questionable decisions. The World Championship should be the pinnacle goal of everybody and when the opportunity is offered to partake it should be grabbed with both hands. Had Darcy held that opinion he would be competing this year, instead of going down the ‘ maybe next year’ route. I believe Darcy puts too much importance into riding with Chris Holder. I know they’re mates, but he should be competing against him rather then holding his hand. I wonder what affect that had on his decision to miss the SGP and ride for his mate’s team in Poland. All these things add up. For me he hasn’t got the total mindset to be world-champion yet. I know he’s only 19, with many years ahead of him. Michael Lee had competed in 3 World Finals at that age, but Darcy still hasn’t shown he’s totally committed to the cause yet. I hope I’m wrong about him, but time will tell…..

A straight answer to to a direct question : NO

I welcome your comments and respect what you say. but the whole point of my previous suggest was to illiminate the close shop scenario and riders having to qualify in a way that would be more beneficial to the respective leagues. As i had said, i believe a lot of the star riders would always make it through to the SGP but it would open the door of opportunity to those riders who would otherwise fail to get a wild card. Gone would be the days when riders knowing that a top ten placing will get them in the following year. There are riders in the top ten who i believe will never win the World championship so to be given this free entry, year after year is wrong.

The experience riders of Hancock, Crump and Gollob will always be in the mix. and of those three, Hancock to be the most promenant. Herbie is blessed with that uncanny knack of gating when it matters, and because of that he will be a thorn in everyones ambitions. Hampel is my choice of top honours. I believe this is the year that he will become World champion after living in the shadow of Gollob in recent years. Only a fool would dismiss AJ, he's always on the pace and capable of winning any race. The younger riders are always a force to be reckon with. Of those, I reckon Sayfutdinov and Holder will make the most inroads, into the differences that separate them from the top. Top 5 prediction. 1, Hampel; 2, AJ; 3 Hancock; 4 Sayfutdinov and 5 Crump.

Sidney, I really think that is wishful thinking, Well done Jonesy, enjoyed reading your views. Predictions were't bad either.

Hi. No your not wrong, I didn't join or know of the forum till last summer. When I took early retirement it was suggested that I should join in the debates to past away the hours. So I can only opologise if I have open up old wounds ( debates.)

I agree with your statement that the GP series has become stagnated. And I feel this is because of the amount of meetings and of the way it’s organised. I believe the ‘close-shop’ scenario is a big factor, and the once ‘must-see’ appeal is now evaporating. Once a rider has gain entry into the series, it gives them a licence to compete for the foreseeable future. Where once, a World final was the ‘Be-all’ and ‘end-all’ of everything, and rider had the attitude of ‘win at all costs’, now we have many rounds and riders adapt the attitude of, not necessary winning, but just to acquire as many point as possible. Riders know that by acquiring enough points to finish in the top ten, it will enable them to contest the following year. My feelings of qualification to the GP series could be far better. The implication of which could have a far-reaching effect on our Elite League. I don’t believe it to be right that those riders who finish outside to the top three should have automatic qualification to the next series. My suggestion would be that, top three would go through to next years series, Joined by the top three in the averages from Poland, Denmark, Sweden and England. (If a rider qualifies from two leagues his place is allocated to the next rider on the list.). This would total 15 plus one extra as dominated by the hosts of each meeting. The effect of this would give the EL more appeal to the star riders, who at present choose to give it a miss. It would also give added insensitive for the riders, who race in league fixtures, without a ‘hope in hell’ of ever gaining qualification under the present system. It would form a connection between each league organisation and that of the world stage. It would create more doors of opportunity for the riders. No doubt, most of the top riders will still contest the series, as they do now. But it would illuminate the same riders racing ‘year in year out’ on the knowledge, there’s always next year. Also the points awarded for SGP finals should be more rewarding. Say 8pts for 1st ; 6 for 2nd , 4 for 3rd and 2 for 4th. This would give more importance to reaching the finals and probably recapture that 'win at all costs' attitude that was associated with the old World Final nights.

Not knowing the exact attendance figures of Wembley 81 , I am surprised you say there was only 72K. I remember that night well. We had great difficult in acquiring tickets and the place was packed to the rafters. Ticket touts were charging 2 and 3 x the going rate and they wouldn't have been able to do that if there were tickets to spare? Aware that Wembley held 100k for fottie matches I would have thought 90k was nearer the mark.

Aware this subject has been discussed before, so i apologise for any repeats from the past, but my original thoughts when I posted this were based on the fact that each year the SGP gets longer, so I apologise again in that I never made it clear. If the SGP continue in the same vane, by the year 2020 there could be 20 rounds per year. I feel 12 is far to many now, I believe they don't do the sport any good by having this amount, The the only concern of BSI is to generate as much money as possible. I am of the impression, although a large sum goes to the FIM, non of this money generated goes back into speedway. ?