g13webb

Wonderful, Its took loads of posts, pages of rubbish and we now have an announcement of what I actually said in the beginning.

Please don't talk to me as though I'm thick, I don't know why you're having your three pennies worth in a discussion anyway. The goal posts have moved on each posting. This thread was about preferred formats, 13 or 15. It was Bwitcher who brought in points and averages. All my posts were talking about the British League, past and present, But Bwitcher keeps putting in these silly comments, and belittling riders from the past. We even had posts saying that MJJ only score6.5 because of the league quality, The goalposts are now move to incorporate the Poland and Swedish leagues. And you have the cheek to question my maths. (I have a degree in advance mathematic). So rather then carry on with this pointless discussion I will bid you farewell before you move the goalposts again....... I think if you look back at my post I referred to a period of the late 60's 70's and 80's . Never once did I mention Briggs, and any reference to riders was in reply to the generalization remark from Bwitcher, belittling riders from the past... Probably it is you who should be more particular.......

I thought we had established you cant look at figures in accessing a riders ability, and any comparison is based on actual achievements, whatever the era. But Bwitcher insists on putting riders down because we only have 10 teams now compared with 20 in the past. What he fails to realise is when we had 20 teams in the league we had twice as many class riders. 20 No.1's etc, and 60 heat leaders. so whatever points they score was well earned. Sure there were also 40 reserve riders in a pool of say 150 riders, that's twice as many as today. To me its irrelevant what their averages were, because they mean nothing when comparing different eras. I know that once we were able to see the best riders in the world, but now we are privilege to see only a few.. and that speaks volumes when talking about quality.....[/b]

So what your actually saying is Peter Collins weren't that good; Ole Olsen was a flash in the pan, Eric Gundersen was just another rider, Hans Neilsen weren't that special and if those riders rode today they would be also-rans.......... GET REAL

Kings Lynn.. Buster and the management have had three meetings with supporters through the winter months, for their views and to keep them informed of all the developments. He even had a special evening where all the riders came to meet the masses and answer questions. A good night for supporter and team bonding.......

I agree, what a strange comment to make, no it is not possible for riders of different era's to race against each other, but SIDNEY,s opinion is a valid as yours, after all, they are only individual perceptions and not actual facts. What would be interesting is for the posters to vote on an all-time TOP TWENTY riders of all time and see what percentage of people thought who were actually the best and see what era the majority of top riders came from...... For starters , in MY opinion, Ivan Mauger was the greatest rider of all time, he wasn't someone I warm too, but sheer class personified....

We could get into a totally new discussion here talking about certain polish riders.. MJJ is a class riders, and yes he could perform well on the worlds stage, the fact he average only 6.5 last year had nothing to do with the league competition, purely on his attitude of racing over here. A truer reflection on his ability would easily push him near the 9 mark. Same could be said about Magic Janowski. A truly incredible rider, who would either, be out of this world taking the like of Lindgren and Holder from the back or would be useless riding around with no intent at all. The fact they are both on ridiculously low average has nothing to do with the standard of the present league as you put it.

Having worked with figures all my life I am well aware of the problems when trying to compare different charts and tables. More often the not the criteria was different and therefore any comparison would be incorrect. All the charts and tables can tell you is how the riders performed in comparison to other in that specific year. When I referred to 'Class' riders, my ideas would reflect their quality rather then the average they achieved. My idea of a class rider would be someone who performed well on the world stage, contested the world final, or represented their country, not simply but scoring a certain average.....

The only way to explain the warp reality that some of you have is to remind everyone that in the late 60's, 70's and 80's all worlds top riders rode in the British League. that's the equivalent of all the SGP riders, all the SGP qualifier riders, and all the world under 21 riders, riding here every week. It didn't matter where they come from, if they were good enough and wanted to be winners then they rode in the British league. Today we only have a sprinkling of the worlds best, so any comparisons made of today's era, to that pre-mentioned falls well short. It's like comparing the Champions league to the 2nd Division. This is not a criticism of the riders such as Holder, Ward, Iversen , merely an explanation of the differences of the number of quality riders....

That's debatable who was the fool. Your opinion of the 13 heat formula is blinded by the fact that, because the No 1 only met each other once, then their averages was therefore higher. But the 13 heat formula was different in so many other ways. As you say the No.1 only met the opposite No1 in the first heat, but he rode against the other heat leaders twice, which was just as difficult in them days. When teams has 3 class heat leaders they had the choice of race positions and team managers sometime rotated them depending on the opposition. I remember Mike Lee always rode at 5, purely so he would race against and usually beat the opposing No 1 twice. When we talk about class riders, back in the 70's all the world's top 50 riders rode in our league, now we have probably only 10. So your perception of that class now based purely on the race format is somewhat miss leading. The 13 and 15 heats formulas are different in so many ways. which is best, will always be debatable, but when it come to the amount of class riders we had, then the 70's era and the 13 heat format wins hands down....

Like I said on another thread, Simon Stead did well last week, there are not many people who do AJ from the back, before he got a puncture, then with bike mended he won his second half heat and rode well in the final. Speaking with him last night he is well happy to be at Lynn. I reckon your lost will be our gain........

Shame about the weather tonight as it stopped any chance of the riders getting any additional practicing at the Club's Press day. Having spent the day team bonding at Centre Parks, all the riders were in good spirits and the photo session turned into a fun time. Live radio interviews were taken place as the camera's clicked away. If the friendliness and attitude of the riders counted towards the league placing's then this team will do very well. Can't wait for it all to start......

Does anybody know What time does the press day starts tomorrow ? Cheers......

As an oldie, I liked the 13 heats and the second half's. But speedway is different now. Where in the past the 13 heat formula worked was because the riders had pride and wanted to win every race. Sure they divided the spoils, but they all wanted to win. We talk about the No1's only meeting each once, but then each team had more better riders. There were 3 heat leaders and most were seasoned internationals. We at Lynn Betts at 1, Simmo at 3, Cole at 5 plus Phil Crump as a second string. Did it matter if Bettsy only rode against the other No 1 once, no cause it didn't. The teams were far stronger then and that's the reason it worked. Now its a different ball game. I've got no problems with the 15 heat format, my gripe is, I would like to see more races for my money and for the night to last longer. I don't like going home early.......

I believe we at Kings Lynn benefit from everything that is good for the sport. Having the Stadium owned by Buster, we don't have to pay for Car Parking, The admission prices are kept to a minimum, the programs is only £2.00 a time, and all the money spent at the bar and shops all go into the business. Buster is very astute and runs a tight ship. But he knows that running a viable operation is of paramount importance. So when we talk about the ability to run the sport on a professional basis, it must be far more difficult to make ends meet for those promoters who rent their stadium and don't have the same luxury a we do at Lynn. What I'm trying to say is, although the numbers of supporters are encouraging, with all them benefits, we at Lynn are not overrun with enthusiasm from the supporters, so it must be doubly hard for those club,s where the costs are higher and the average supporting numbers are lower. Oh for a Magic solution.......

Going back in time, speedway was always about affordability. Back in the early 70's it cost £1.70 adult admission to watch the Stars and a 8 page program (16 sides of information) cost 10 pence. So the cost of watching the sport was 17 times more then the program. Now, the Program is £3.00 and admission is £17.00, are we saying the program is more important then the racing?. Soon , at this rate, it'll cost most to buy a program then it is to watch the racing........

Yeah, I appreciate the importance that is put into the program sales. and the much needed revenue received from sponsors in this way. But Speedway as it was once known doesn't work any more. we need to make it more attractive and bring it into the modern era. That doesn't mean you have to lose the sponsors, purely alter the arrangements so the sponsor can see the benefits. This is why the TV deal is so important. But there's loads of ways to sell advertising to sponsors, far better then printing an advert in a program that only has a circulating figure approx. 1000.

Later, Added on to the above. It is possible nowadays for each club to have a Wi-Fi zone, and to send results straight to supporter's Smartphone. Each club could even have their own APP. All these things would bring the sport into the modern era. If clubs wanted to attract sponsors to this idea then their logo could be seen on the APP. Loads of possibilities......... Just need forward thinking......

In my opinion, filling in the program is another reason why its difficult to attract new generation of supporters to meetings. Although seen in the past as a necessity and was looked upon as part and parcel of speedway, now, with all the new technology, it's not necessary anymore. each track should install a large screen that displays all the information you want to see. If you want to keep the race cards up to date, then download a completed one from the home side web-site the following day.. To plan to have a 36 page program is ridiculous. People who go to speedway don't want that. if they wanted a book to read they would've gone to a news agent. All supporters need is a small pamphlet, keeping them up to date with what's on. And you should be able to knock them out and make a profit on a quid......

All this goings-on about assets and loans, Meetings and MC's has all but killed the desire to use the forum. I sure everyone is sick to their back teeth with it. The sooner it's forgotten about the better. In the beginning, most posters had their own opinions on the subject, where-as now, they couldn't care less what happens. They just want to get on with the sport.........

Pretty good assessment, but I think your a bit harsh On Lindgren and Kasprzak. Think they should have been Improvers & Unpredictables.

Its easy to be judgemental when looking at facts and figures, but they don't tell all the story. I doesn't tell you Stead took AJ from the back before EF ruined the opportunity of following Neils home for a 5-1, Nor his second half performances. and Kozza battled for all his points, coming from the back each time. The spectacular crash in his first ride, when trying the outside line, gives a false impression of his points scored. I've got no worries with these two.........

I was just impressed by the attitude that was shown last night. I been about too long to get carried away, purely optimistic that all......

After watching our riders perform this week, I actually believe all seven of our riders can up their average, even Neils. Theirs not many teams, where that can happen.. so we hopefully can do really well and figure near the top of the leaderboard.... With a bit of LUCK we get off to a good start and that will install belief into the squad. then who knows!!!!!!

Fingers crossed that the predicted rain keeps away till later, so that the TT Farewell meeting goes ahead. Having been to the Norfolk Arena every day this week, I'm really getting in the swing again. But nothing replaces the atmosphere of competitive racing. Am expecting a good crowd there to wish a loyal servant a fond farewell...