stratton

Tells me nothing on what you have already told me, i would imagine as long as Nicki rides he will be a threat and do well .A terrific rider done brilliantly but every year he gets a chance over a JANOWSKI and SUNDSTRUM to me that stunts there progress.When Olsen reached Norden 83 he reached that final on merit because he was a great rider.Is different now young riders need a PUSH and a CHANCE if Nicki finishes outside the top 8 will he always get a entry.? if so that stunts a newcomer a chance.

A joke post did people think MOORE LEE and COLLINS were good anough? at 17 or maybe be out of there debth? get the chance then you know either way.Your posts are great mostly enjoy reading em not one of your best.

The ones you named have had there CHANCE NEW BLOOD needed If pedersen dosent get in the top 8 why should he be there is he going to stay in till he is 45 ?that cant be right.When are you going to know if JANOWSKI is good anough if he dosent get a chance does he wait till he is 30? God i hope you dont run the series TOP 8 certainly i love CRUMPY if he dosent get in top 8 he should have to qualify brutal but right.

Comercial shouldnt really come into it ,most of them [ie] Hampel didnt go bang straight into the series full time.I like it when riders go in sometimes and just grasp there chance.I dont think much will change in the series if i would change things it would be 8 top riders qualify.Maybe 4 get chosen say riders you know have done well and the public like.[ ex] i would pick Ward janowski Batchelor sundstrom .Then have a one off qualifier 16 riders going for 4 spots for the prize of being in the g.p.Be happy with that more opportunity there,

You dont know do you until you have been given a chance.People improve at different knots,i found riders over the years improved by getting chances.Lee, Collins ,came in and got on the pace quickly winning world class events.Like i said i only see 4 riders good anough at the moment to win it Jonsson has the ability but maybe he has missed his chance.Is only 4 good anough because not alot of new blood is getting fed into the system quickly anough out of the 4 three are VETERANS.?

Iris i know usually in the cycle it does work its self out the 3 old uns now i believe will be a force for a while yet.If i had a punt on two riders too emerge i think Janowski not original and Linus Sundstrom i rate him stylish.

Yes some good points there has been riders who have missed out in the w.c through politics Autrey Woods and others (ect).All i want is more new talent to come into the series quicker thats all.My take is when the top boys Mauger Briggo Olsen reached the veteran stages there were loads of young quality riders to step in and fill the void.Now it isnt the case outside of Ward i dont see anyone yet coming through to that level.That is because alot of them are not getting pushed quick anough to test themselves and aquire the exsperience to reach the top. It Isnt going to happen now Deano but if it was 1995/6 now i would like both systems in place.

In little Britain the previous system was better, more exciting , g.p.s (sometimes yawn yawn boring )and FAIRER FOR ALL not just a chosen few, He hasnt lost anything Rob does it matter who wins or loses, there are no losers its just a opinion .Has there been overwhelming proof that the series is better and FAIRER TO EVERYONE .NO is the answer. A simple question IRIS would those 5 riders i named have WON MORE TITLES in this format a honest answer YES OR NO? By the way (as much as i like Mark) Loram and Nicky Pedersen were not the best riders in the world in my opinion when they won it.Shows the format today has flaws dont win a round but still win the title.

Iris i think i will try to be clear ,i have never said the OLD SYSTEM never had flaws in it it did but was fair for EVERYONE.Also i have never been against the SERIES ever all i want is fresh TALENT to be given a go no more than that.Ok 20 titles is tongue in cheek my point is if 5 examples MAUGER, FUNDIN,BRIGGS,COLLINS,OLSEN who rode a combined 98 years WON 19 TITLES ONLY.If say now say take 4 years off of each riders career paying there dues serving there apprenteiship .That meant no qualifying 11rounds of gp racing each year that would of been 78 chances do you believe at this format they would of WON only 19 titles.? All those 5 were consistent and LORAM showed you can win a series without winning a ROUND.The biggest point for me is those riders never had the LUXURY of being in the event without QUALIFYING. Sorry Deano you have a point thats my lot on the subject,will be supporting Crumpy for this brilliant G.P.SERIES.

I think you are right ,Collins a example of the gp series supporters using him as a weapon to say the old format was unfair.I think the opposite now is more UNFAIR at least P.C had a OPPORTUNITY to be eliminated and FAIL in certain years.

The easiest way of explaining the difference how easier it is now is say MAUGER rode 24 years ok take 4 years off learning his craft riding in Australia[ect].ok say that leaves Ivan 20 chances in the gp series [no one off] meetings gpseries instead because he would of certainly had been in it. Would IVAN had one only won 6 titles out of 20?Dont think so LORAM showed you can win a title without winning a round. MAUGER would of been in his element himself and NIELSEN are the most consistent riders i have ever seen no doubt in my mind Mauger through every year over 12 rounds would of been tough to beat.

Ok being a bit picky Briggo rode at 49 but you wouldnt include that would you? Gundersen was a junior before the 79 season if you want to go literally to there first ever lap impossible to Know that all the records are reasonably assessed.Michael Lee rode interval rides well before the age of 16 and Jason Crump did also.Lee rode in 1975 aged 16 Crump started his career in 1991. A silly post Rob also i and others are not against the gp series that is a myth we just say there are negative points against the series thats all.

Thanks SCB, The points really were to IRIS more than anyone 1./ We know the old system was cruel at times but the riders knew the rules before hand so it was EXCEPTED. 2./ It was a hell of a achievement to actually reach a final . 3./RIDERS were all on the same level playing field whether you were Barry Briggs or Clive Hitch you could all chase your dream, 4./Nothing was given to you not seeded through ,every year because of your past achievements you had to earn the right to QUALIFY. 2 massive examples of how now is EASIER and UNFAIR. Take Ivan Mauger a legend he rode 24 YEARS yet he only reached 14 FINALS.If he was riding now he would of BEEN put through at least 20 TIMES whats that a extra 6 chances at a title? Peter Collins again rode 15 YEARS only reached 8 finals todays format maybe another 4 goes at the title for PC.Nearly all those riders on that list would of had another 3 goes at the title each.Knockout in the old format was also not unfair most rounds 7 or 8 points were anough to get you through so no excuses.Surely people should see by getting put through is alot easier than ACTUALLY qualifying. Also add the AMOUNT of chances Gollob Crump Hancock Hampel Jonsson have had by not having to Qualify that tells you something.

BRIGGS years active 1952-1976 (24years) 18 w.finals winner 4 placed 6 MAUGER years active 1957-81 (24 years) (1984 1 season home meeting,s only exeter) 14 w.finals winner 6 placed 4 FUNDIN years active 1951-1970 (19 years) 15 w.finals winner 5 placed 6 OLSEN years active 1967-1983 (16years) 12 w.finals winner 3 placed 3 CRAVEN years active 1951-1963 (12years) 10 w.finals winner 2 placed 2 KNUTSSON years active 1957-1966 (9years) 6 w.finals winner 1 placed 2 WILLIAMS years active 1947-1956 (9years) 4 w.finals winner 2 placed 1 MICHANEK years active 1965-1983 (18years) 11 w.finals winner 1 placed 1 MOORE years active 1950-1972 (22years) 15 w.finals winner 2 placed 3 YOUNG years active 1949-1964 (15years) 8 w.finals winner 2 placed 0 COLLINS years active 1971-1986) (15years) 8 w.finals winner 1 placed 1 PENHALL years active 1977- 1982 (5years) 3 w.finals winner 2 placed 0 LEE years active 1975- 1984 (9years] had unsuccessful comebacks in 85,86 91 brief cameo,s. 6 w.finals winner 1 placed 2 RICKARDSSON years active 1989-2006 (17years) 16 w.finals 4 one off finals winner 1 placed 1 12 gp series. winner 5 placed 4 total wins 6 placed 5 CRUMP years active 1991-present 1 one off final. 17 w.finals 16 gp series winner 3 placed 7 total wins 3 placed 7 GOLLOB years active 1988-present 2 one off final s 16 w.finals 14 gp series winner 1 placed 5 total wins 1 placed 5 HANCOCK years active 1989-present 2 one off final s 19 w.finals 17 gp series winner 2 placed 3 total wins 2 placed 3 NIELSEN years active 1977-1999 ( 22years) 19 w.finals 3 one off finals winner placed 6 5 gp series winner 1 placed 2 total wins 4 placed 8 GUNDERSEN years active 1979-1989 (10years) 8 w.finals winner 3 placed 1 Reading back i still maintain it was alot harder in YESTERYEAR no doubt about it.The elite not having to qualify can have october to /april planning there assault on the title.Unlike the old brigade having a slog before they even get to the final.

The ones they rode in FINALS, they all got there on merit wasnt given to them on a plate had to qualify every year different test.What did briggo ride in 19 finals? legend, Dont get me wrong Gollob Crumpy Hancock i admire greatly and am privaliged to have seen all 3ride.. The only difference is WIE JA is come OCTOBER every year they Know they have qualified for the next year.If that had been the case for Briggo Fundin Mauger Olsen they would of had another 20 world titles between them.

[5 RANDOM FINALS picked for examples] 1970] POLAND mauger briggs olsen michanek waloszek woryna 6] 1977] SWEDEN michanek lee collins sanders olsen mauger 6] 1980] SWEDEN lee jessup penhall nielsen sanders andersson 6] 1981] ENGLAND penhall lee carter gundersen nielsen knudsen olsen jessup 8] 1984] SWEDEN gundersen nielsen sanders s. moran k.moran king 6] You said there were always only a elite who could win a world final.I picked FIVE random finals . FOUR of them at least 6 of the riders could of won the final and in 1981 at least 8 of them could of won it as well. Also bearing in mind in some of those years there were alot of spoilers who could do some damage as well. 2012 GP series CRUMP HANCOCK GOLLOB HAMPEL are in my opinion the only ones who can win the title [ 4] THREE of them have been in the series for well OVER A DECADE does that last sentence tell you you have to have fresh blood yearly and a new impeteus on the competition.

No hopefully they work together and come to a agreement,to suit all parties. If there wasnt 1 GP meeting every fortnight the problems might not be there.As for the qualifying in affect only about 5 spots to go for 11or 12 pick thereselves.

You have to QUALIFY to get to one meeting a year ,but i suppose it would be nice for riders to have a CHANCE if they wanted to compete for the premier prize.As i think Humphrey eluded to 1 gp every fortnight is to much to much as in distracting league fixtures[clubs dont get compensatedWHY?] and for me personally to are taking away the specialness of the event.I was going to say nothing on the subject again but you WIE-JA spout on about the same old drivel nothing positive.The gp series is here to STAY we all no that but something in the event has to CHANGE getting quite mudane and needs freshening up a bit otherwise the event could become stale.

Thanks Frigbo Holloway was on fire that night beat Moran twice.

Was young when he died ,was very talented he did have a column in the s.star once and sold Mike Lee his first bike.

I have that picture too Chunky also have one of him front cover of s.star with OXFORD with full face helmet on.Good rider got his prized autograph didnt he ride for the Dons and started at Belle vue?

Yes we will all go into early retirement on that subject now well exhausted .Mind you the turning to drink and loose women seems ok though,

I really think it is a interesting debate,your point about the presentation Parken is a excellent one. A couple of points, i would like to make i think to win in the old format was a lot HARDER certainly mentally i think.theyre were some flaws in the old system, but over time i feel the best riders did win it.The odd shock but generally the best came to the top i think you can say that by over a 60 year period how many legends there are.The gp series is to me more of a marathon now a different quality needed and is different week to week.Who has missed out in the series qualifying nobody really but its that feeling at sometimes not everybody getting the chance when they want one.Another point which i say now is apparent which for me says alot is.Over the years now in the the one offs some finals you had up to 8/10/12 riders who at there best was a equal and new in there own mind had the ability to WIN a world title now i think at the top end this is not the case.In the gpseries now i think it is less competetive ,the odd race and meeting maybe over a period no.Hancock Crump Gollob, Hampel the only ones with any chance of winning the series Jonsson and the russian real outside chances. That is i think because not anough fresh faces are getting a chance at the RIGHT TIME to step up to the plate to test there ability.Two sports who i compare speedway with Darts and Snooker different faces qualifying for events and actually going on and winning them.Both those sports have EVERY tournament at least 20 people who could win it in speedway because of the closed shop we dont have it. I am the same will say no more on it ,been good though.

I am know way a old codger i dont think i am anyway i am nearly as old as Parsloes and like to think i keep up with the times,and have seen both sides. I for one Iris cannot ever remember anyone say to me i dont like the one off finals.You are wrong about me anyway, i dont totally dislike the series i dislike the UNFAIRNESS of it. .But its when people like you try to make out i am in the notion of the good old days lets have them back it is not true.What we have now is it better than we had before? has it took us into the 21 century and made progress? my answer is a big NO it hasnt we are falling behind other sports if anything.Only my humble opinion ,you make out me and Parsloes are from the dark ages we are not i think he like me feel things are not as great as people like you make out.Transparaty of the sport would help alot as well. Very unfair in my mind BFD but i respect yours and others opinions i think Parsloes points are well made.If anything people who are in love with it now to me are the ones who get a bit defensive and prickly.

If the series did say change to top the 8 then say the bottom 8 against 8 qualifyier,s for the right to be in the series. That would be a forward move,Imagine that on sky live a one off meeting would be brilliant.That would show the excitement that the old system brought, a result on the night this system is right for live tv excitement in abundance.