stratton

Your point is spot on Falcace, maybe you can answer me this strange and i sometimes point to this when people debate the points limit. In 1973 i think Rick France was no 7 in the averages for Sheffield average i think was 6.73? roughly.Yet they didnt win the league i know Owlerton had a big home advantage and most averages were boosted by that.And Reading had a great side then does it show you figures and buying success might not always work?Thats what people say now the richer teams Poole and Coventry would win it every year without the points level.If you said in 73 you would have a no 7 on a 6.73 average and not win the league you would think you were mad.

It was not really the DOUBLE figure averages i wanted to point out though. More importantly people below that mark (ie) 1971 Persson 12th in averages 9.84 in june 1972 C.Lofqvist 17th in averages 9.31 in june 1973. B.Jansson 21st in averages 9.03. 1972 in june Belle vue in one team alone ) Mauger 11.14, Sjosten 9.20, Pusey 9.16,.a massive gulf in standard i think.Now you have explained Oldace how the averages are done now I am the wiser still baffling though.

Like i said we can DRESS the figures up, we can all do what we want with figures.Again averages why are they not SIMPLE ,like they were? rolling averages no B.P ect it is madness.Mathematical fact you are RIGHT oldace but you know what i mean, but i looked at Ward he had a low average of 8.94? i think somewhere how?

No cant agree with that today is easy pickings compared to years ago you look at Mauger,s averages 11 plus over 35 matches nine years on the trot 1968/76 .A example in the 70s you go to Belle vue away as a no1 Mauger at no 1 Pusey, Wilkinson ,Sjosten, Collins .The difference is no 2s 5 and 4s then could beat in and out no 1s.I know figures can be dressed up and do heat 15s now even count on the averages?Your point about gate positions is right but that shows second strings must of defeated in and out no 1s off unfavourable gates.Take Ward for example now most weeks at home when he is on his game he knows he will probably only drop maybe a point at worst.Only Bjerre,Lindgren,Holder, Ward now that average over 9 and there figures are only lower because of a busy workload they have.A example 1980 Lee Jessup v Collins Morton 2011 King Barker v Nicholls Klindtd heat 15 examples does that tell you something?No way is it harder to get double figures in the E.L now than in yesteryear.

Thats why Nielsen averaged well over 11.30 for some years the level had dropped alarmingly.No comparison to the 11.74 average Ivan got against far far superior opposition.Then you sometimes had someone only 12th or 15 th in the top averages on a big 9.00 figure.

You are kidding he would not be in my top 50 ,Penhall went out and grabbed it his destiny if he Bast was 12th or 14th where was Penhall 1st?

I think what you said TWK made me realise that riders then needed British speedway to realise there dreams.Now we are a poor relation 3rd in the pecking order and in my opinion no way back now.Remember seing Kelly riding for the usa when he was american based and he said he never had that edge and in Britain you could not get away with it.Britain was a superb learning curb variety of tracks sizes set ups without that you would never really be a force.Now how so much different it is only one big track in the E.L Blunsdon ok maybe Peterborough as well and after that all a muchness.

If he had come over here he would of been on a good whack money wise not peanuts always thought that was a excuse.?He had agreed a package with the Dons, Maidment said at the last minute he pulled out leaving them in a bit of a pickle team wise.

What was he like around Plough Lane in practice Iris?

Not an all time great ,to do that the british league was the only place to do it.He chose a different path did well in his safety zone ALL TIME GREAT is bandied about all to easily i dont class him as one.

I see him win the manpower at Reading, he was then didnt like him good aquipment though great gater he was world class for a couple of years.

I couldnt put those two in a pair Falcace at the same level as Mort and P.C i watch that race of mort,s regularly when he takes Carter from the back in the northern riders some pass as Carter was superb at hyde rd.Schwartz for me was underated as a team rider superb didnt even reach a world final boogaloo was a skilful rider.

No all i am saying in my personnal opinion i rated Penhall,S Moran K Moran Sigalos Autrey higher than sudden Sam.Alan Christian when did he ride for a B.L club? also missed out Mcconnell Chrisko G.Woods.

It makes no difference to me whether he rides or not,was it right for Kroeze to ride in Amsterdam NO it wasnt. Is it right for the credibility of the series for Bunyan to ride NO again but it is only my opinion.People will be talking about Bunyan for the wrong reasons which funny anough i dont think is fair on him.

BFD i think most people dont mean to knock speedway,most like me i think want it to prosper and lets be honest speedway could be improved a hell of alot.At least on this forum,you can debate a little wrightly or wrongly.Its a pity the people in power didnt listen a bit maybe they could connect better with the bread and butter fans,

No i followed his career alot,a fine career he had too see a fair bit of him did surprise me somewhat what he achieved .Theyre are some riders that are like that surely you must of been the same with certain riders?

No if i am honest was a massive Autrey fan one of my sons was named after him, and would rate higher than Ermolenko.See Ermolenko quite a bit when he rode with Mike Lee god he was erratic so never really took to him.Had a great career so fair play to him., Autrey was the opposite a silky smooth rider.

I would rate Penhall, Kelly and Shawn Sigalos higher certainly, as well as a peak Autrey 78/79 at least on par with Ermolenko.I dont go on what they won totally he did well to win a world title and had a good career.If you went by silverware only Penhall i suppose would be in front of him. Graham Warren, Adams are great examples of why i dont go by that notion .Sumner Mcknight is the worst american i see ride ever.

And i agree that it wasnt right then and it certainly isnt right now. Surely having BUNYAN in it isnt going to make the difference of the event being a success or not.If it is the sport has bigger problems than i thought.

Bwitcher i am on about a peak Chris Morton 1978 to /85, Ermolenko wouldnt of lived with him 1987 Mort was way past his brilliant best .Also PC 1974/80 no contest also,Ermolenko for me was one of the most unimpressive americans for me did well but well overachieved and i rate alot of his collegues higher.

The Dean Machine what are you disappointed most about Speedway? I am disappointed with our elite league also younger english riders not coming through.I am not to bothered about the gps just worried about british speedway in general no long term thought or strategy.

Dont agree the spectacle and product should be anough to sell the sport ,are they going to put strippers on in the interval to bring more people in.Really disappointed the sports not going in the right direction for me.

This thing happening in the sport, shows as Parsloes and others say is it a proper world championships?Commercial reasons and whoever puts the money up front for this meeting shouldnt come into it, a farce in my opinion.

Wouldnt it be great if they could get Jason Crump to turn out for Bob? i would pay extra and would generate more money for the gate.Didnt know Bob very well but was a really good bloke great rider and he deserves it.I hope Shane,s day goes well also as he deserves it too.

Did speedway just lose a generation of supporters? The Little Un suggested on another thread that people have been lost for ever.I have friends who went to speedway know whats going on still in the sport but do other things in there lives and dont go at all.I think since Penhalls retirement 82/83 the sport has plummeted is it because the sport took supporters for granted? is it the stupid rules? is it too exspensive to go? maybe the product is not as good as it used to be wondered what people thought.