waiheke1

Brilliant, thanks arnieg. Were/are you an aces fan or a racers fan?

If you use that approach then I can only see five times world champ(in that period) Mauger being top, followed by nielsen who would likely top the rankings from 83-88. Then I assume olsen and gundersen (or vice versa) and Peter Collins. Lee and Michanek would likely follow, while penhall would likely have two firsts, one second from his three years as a world class rider. I have top 10 ststistical rankings for the years 80-88 which could be a starting point, can dig them out tomorrow.

Briggs Jan o pedersen and s moran then seem to be the other riders common to all three lists. Carter ermolenko sigalos sanders jessup Simmons p crump b jansson all appear on two lists. That would give us 19 with one spot left to fill. And I'd be tempted to give that to Muller, who appeared only on Gustix list, but as a world champ include him ahead of the other "one vote" riders. So that's 20, just need to sort them.

We have three lists for 69-88, though only one ranks riders in order. Perhaps the starting point is riders common to all three lists? I'd suggest also that Mauger olsen penhall nielsen gundersen Collins lee Michanek would be a more or less unanimous top 8, with just the order subject to debate?

I assume it is John grahame. With Preston the guest for Jan Andersson. Must be a misprint in either 8 or 9, as gresham couldn't take ts rides in both.

Pawlicki worth an e/w? Those odds look fair enough to me sid. Maybe the outsiders should be longer odds though.

Many thanks dav Much appreciated

Dudek at 14 looks the best value. Nicki holder puk maybe worth a punt Zmarzlik greg and emil not bad value either

Is it 69-98 or 69-88?If the former, I'd stick Hamill back in! If the latter, a couple of good additions.

It's an excellent thread. But to be clear - you just wanted people to post their lists and noone comment on them?

Where have I said anything about the order? I've queried the inclusion of some riders above others who haven't made the list. Seems Sidney has queried most of the same.I was in no way denigrating your list, though hamill and knuttson were both bizarre inclusions. Perhaps you could justify the more borderline inclusions rather than getting defensive? I'd say there are maybe 10 riders who would make most lists, the last 10 very subjective (for example I left out j Louis, muller,persson, jansson, Sanders, n Boocock, r Wilson, ermolenko, k moran, wigg, tatum who all had some claim for inclusion). Can't say Petersen or Schwartz would make my top 20 of the 80s, let alone that expanded era. Surely the interesting part is having discussions, not just everyone agreeing. If you make astonishing omissions, such as plechanov and Jack young ftom your first list of 49-68, or left field inclusions like hamill (or Mike bast on that other thread) then they will be queried. In which case you can either man up and admit you made a mistake, or take your ball home. More than happy for you to pull apart my list. And just to add: surely Michanek should be in the top 20, without a doubt the 4th best rider of the 70s imo. Certainly a better one-time champ than muller.

69-98 hamill would be included for sure. But 69-88? He was an 18 year old, who had achieved what by 88? He hadn't won an American title, represented his country in a major international event? What demonstration of his talent ate you using to include him ahead of say the moran brothers?

Billy Hamill ? On what basis? He hadn't appeared in the bl yet, nor won any major title? Bjorn knutsson in this era? Schwartz ahead of the Morans, Peter sen ahead of knudsen, Wigg ahead of Simmons are odd ones for me.

Are u aware of the points limit?Good hl trio, solid 2nd strings, clegg will go fine At reserve. Be very surprised If they dint make the playoffs.

1969-1988 1. Ivan Mauger 2. Hans Nielsen 3. Ole Olsen 4. Bruce Penhall 5. Eric Gundersen 6. PeterCollins 7. Mike Lee 8. Anders Michanek 9. Dave Jessup 10. Kenny Carter 11. Barry Briggs 12. Malcolm Simmons 13. Shaun Moran 14. Soren sjosten 15. Jan Oswald Pedersen 16. Phil Crump 17. Chris Morton 18 Dennis Sigalos 19. Tommy Knudsen 20. Bengt Jansson

How does it look if you take points only for the riders say five best seasons? To peak performance rather than sustained time at the top? Allowing perhaps one "bonus point" for each season more than 5 i the top ten.Super work! I ask as I'd rank Mauger higher than 18th. Using that methodology 69-88, penhall would likely score say 29 points, which would likely leave him someway outside the top 5, whereas he is certainly in that top group imo.

Yes. But a company can choose to offer a contract which contains an exclusivity clause. And it's up to the contractor whether they sign or not. If people really think this is breaking a law, can they quote that law?

Not what Shovvy said.

Not sure there is any ambiguity over the identities of any rider on my list. Tbh if you don't know who woffy emil or Jan o are, then you are probably correct in not commenting on the list. How about your list from 69-88 sid? Or thoughts on mine. I'm sure you'd query muly omission of crump, and tbh if I redraft I think I'd need to fit him in there. I'd say my list is also biased towards the latter half of that era.

Schlein would be an excellent signing, give wolves arguably the strongest top 4 in the league. And be the experienced fugue in the pits they need in the post PK era. And be the experienced figure in the pits they need in the post PK era.

What meeting?

Why so defensive? Surely the point of such lists is to debate them.I've said I think it is generally a good list. Surely it's valid to query the omission of a double world champ, or why one of the "big five" is so low. My knowledge of the era is far lower than yours I'm sure, given I was born 10 years after the end of it. If you want to pull a list of mine apart, I've provided mine for the two subsequent eras. Where all you queried was which Morton I included in the era 69-88, somewhat strangely asking if it was Wal or Val?

Which EU employment law do u think is being broken Steve? As far as I'm aware there is no law which states an employer cannot ask a contractor to work exclusively for that employer for the duration of the contract period. But if I'm wrong I would be very interested to know the relevant law you think applies. Steve Shovlar already confirmed this a few pages back. They could have done. But the extra 1.5 points they had elsewhere means they've ended up with a stronger team imo.I think the kl team is almost as strong, boosted by the fact that I think both lambert and batch could actually improve their averages, but feel klindt>huckenbeck gives poole the edge.

As others have said, Williams should surely be there, assume this is just an oversight.And struggle to see why knuttson is so low - surely should be higher than say Ron How? Otherwise looks a good list, certainly the revised top 10 seems a better reflection of the riders' achievements.

Without a doubt eric I would say, though he was eventually fine after taking a year to adapt