waiheke1

given the strength of this kl side I would be amazed if you have points spare to strengthen at 7 once the first averages come out. I think you will be at least a couple of points over the limit.

Peter Collins was also a racer who became world champ.Would put nielsen and t rick in a different category to Hancock. Hancock is primarily a gaters. Nielsen and in particular t rick could be superb from the back. But as you mention, they rarely needed to do so. On his world final debut though t rick did most of his work from the back, in a meeting Jan o did his stuff from the front. I'd say eric was more in the Hancock mould though he could pass if he needed to - remwmber he also won the 85 world pairs for denmark bombing outside carter in the wet.

Salary cap is useful to try to maintain a level playing field, albeit frought with practical issues. Speedway has averages, which are a much better way to ensure a relatively even playing field.

Nokia remain a networks company, as they have been for a number of years now. They are not returning to manufacturing phones. Microsofts right to use nokia brand has expired. Nokia branded phones will now be made by another company, with Nokia receiving license fees for use of the brand.

There is a difference between posting sn opinion and posting a load of crap.

So how are you defining these 37 riders? Given there are the same number of teams as last year, where have these additionAl 37 riders come from? And would it not be a good thing if we did have an extra 37 riders? Have you included Steve Brum amongst them or what criteria have you used?

I make it over 1.8 million footballers in the uk will miss out on a premier league team place. Does this reflect the downward spiral of English football?

Had the promoters postponed the meeting would they still have had a claim against the contractors/council with regards to the track not being ready?Or without this decision being made by a neutral (I. E. referee) would their claim have been void?

Ok. Aces must have lostv40-37 in the league cup. N Collins and Davis guested for aces, I believe Oxford were missing Andy grahame.And then u r right, Oxford must have scraped home in the league as well, with n Collins guesting for u that time. Didn't get any better for the aces the following season, though at least we dealt to u at cowley in the league cup, blackbird beating Hans 3? times!!!

Yep that was 85. Crang is without a doubt the worst rider I have seen in aces colours.From memory we beat you by two points in a lastvheat decider in the league, and you beat us by 3 points in the league cup when we were missing mort and pc (might have bl and league cup wrong way round).

I enjoyed that season as well tbh. Some absolutely stonking home wins. And with pc mort and foxy doing a lot of it from the back, still plenty of opportunity for good racing. The following season the aces were pretty weak, which made for a number of nail biting last heats, and generally without the mort/pc pairing in heat 13. Still can't believe Bamforth ditched Larry Ross for Andy Campbell! And failed in signing sudden sam mid season, so brought in Eddie ingels instead!

Got a few dvds off classic speedway for Christmas. Have so far watched the 1983 overseas final - had forgotten how wet it was, certainly not a meeting for roaring round the boards at Hyde rd. Even so, amazing tgat both pc and s moran bowed out. People moan about modern day riders not riding in poor conditions, but when you see what should be a brilliant meeting be mediocre due to conditions, you have to think that it may be a good thing that less meetings get ridden in the wet. And 1984 league cup, aces destroying a pretty powerful heathens 51-27, with gundersen scoring 14. Decent meeting, though tbh the racing at most aces meetings this year that I've seen has been better. Would suggest it's a myth that racing was better in days gone by.

That time of year to look at the highs and lows of 2016 Rider of the Year: Jason Doyle Young Rider of the year: Bartosz Zmarzlik British Rider of the Year: Tai Woffinden Young British Rider of the Year: Robert Lambert Most improved rider: Tempting to go with KK, who was absolutely awful in 2015 but world class in 2016, but will plump for Krystian Pieszczek, ahead of riders such as Max Fricke and Vaclav Milik. Most Improved Brit: I'll go S Worrall, edging out Adam Ellis. Biggest Surprise of the year: Greg Hancock, not for winding back the year to win a 4th world title, but by producing the year's most controversial moements Biggest Debacle: Opening night at the NSS Best Track: The NSS, finally a track worth of the Aces and the memory of Hyde Rd Best Meeting: SEC Euro champs, round 2 at Daugvapils. Has there been a better meeting ever? Best meeting (Britain): 2nd leg play off final at the NSS, wrong result but demonstrated everything speedway is about, and what British speedway can be (honourable mention to the SC final).

67 pages through a thread called "Tai quits Team GB" which has been running for months!?!

The comment re rolling averages was directed to gavan, something went wrong in my quoting of him so this wasn't obvious.

Exactly - we don't know. Would wolves have won without woffy. Personally i think it strengthened wolves, and certainly gave them a psychological boost. But they were quite capable of winning with joonas. So maybe yes, maybe no. We can debate all we like, but end of the day wolves were deserving champs.

Surely chris morton needs to make that list, ahead of say Boulger or Ashby? Nice list though Sid.

because it is how many meetings each rider rode in 2016? What other basis would u have used?[quote name="Gavan" post="2899848" So Joonas ended up on 6.68 and Tai 7.03?? Surely you can see that rolling averages are irrelevant, it is 2016 averages that matter, and there was a significant difference. Not saying that wolves would not have won without woffy. And in any case they were deserving champs. But it's bizarre to argue that he wasn't a factor.

Would u have won the final were PK not on woffys bike at belle vue? The final was closer than the eventual 10 point margin, and certainly a 2 or 4 point swing could have been all that was needed for there to be a different outcome over the final heats.

Re Jan o: by 88 he had a 2nd and a 3rd in the world final, a blrc title and three WTC titles. In a gp system I think it's fair to say he would have been 2nd or 3rd in 88. So while only st the tail end of the period, I think it's fair to say he was riding at the top top level. Not convinced by Eric Boococks claim tbh, he is a rider that never really did it at the top top level. But there are probably 50 riders you could make a case for, and his is arguably more worthy than some of the other nominees such as Bobby "never made a world final" Schwartz and Bo Petersen imo. Interesting discussion for sure. So we have now 10 riders on all 4 lists: Mauger nielsen olsen gundersen penhall Collins Lee Michanek Briggs s moran The following on three lists: Jan o pedersen Carter sigalos sanders jessup simmons On two lists: P crump b jansson ermolenko autrey morton 21 riders to fit into 20 spots.

I think you may be the only member of the forum that believes that...

I'd say lee was in a different league to Loram and havvy. The latter two I would say are similar, though I would give Loram the edge. Pedersen I think is commonly regarded as the worst three time world champ ever, but must still rank in the top 16 post war riders imo.

Not a bad list, but I'd be amazed if dudek or pedersen are that low. What a quality line up it is!

Personally if going subjectively, then a combo of both (hence penhall is high on my list, but I also included someone like mort for longevity). If going a stats based approach, I would rate it in peak 5 seasons or something like that, rather than a cumulative approach over the decades.

Id argue in dome teams both reserves were as weak or weaker. Cradley nearly won the league in 82 with dome awful reserve pairings. Coventry's title winning side of 87 had two local juniors at reserve. But absolutely the main body of the team were much stronger. Though the top teams in 2017 will still be better than the weaker teams of the earlier eras (e.g. eastborne 83, swindon 82/83, Halifax 83/84 etc.