waiheke1

Butt you just brought that "of all time" into ot. It is clear everyone elder has been saying that at the current time Poole are the biggest club. If you talk "all time" then Preston North End are one of the biggest clubs. But reality is that now they are not. You can hardly call Cradley or voventry big clubs now, despite their history. Id say Poole, Aces then probably Wolves. Taking into account success, crowds, name recognition etc.

Yes riders ride only two nights a week in the uk. But that could be a Monday and Wednesday one week, a Thursday and Saturday the next a Tuesday and Sunday the one after. Therefore by committing to make the uk a priority they would be unable to ride in an overseas league without the probability that at some time they would have a clash of fixtures.Point 2 referred to the complaints of unfairness and illegality when the poles requested riders sign a contract giving priority to their club

The issue with that is:1. Committing to racing in the UK means being available 7 race nights a week, compared to 1 in any other European league 2.have you seen the whinging about the poles doing this?

What I find odd is that people think riders "owe" British speedway something. If my employer trains me while I work, do I "owe them" anything more than giving 100% effort while I work for them? If a footballer joins a lower league club, do the fans or club complain if they move onto bigger and better things? If people go to see a movie with an unknown actor, does that actor somehow "owe" the fans something? Or do all parties actually benefit when a young talent rides in bits in? The rider develops his skills and gets paid. The club has a ruder who performs well (if he doesn't he's likely to be dropped). The fans get to see a talented young rider - does it matter where they are from? Most Audries have actually been pretty loyal to the UK. Sure part of it is likely to be that they prefer to live here than Europe. Sure some of them have a reputation for whinging. But fact is that Doyle Ward Batch Holder etc have all consistently rode in Britain, unlike others such as Hancock, Nicki P etc. People say earlier riders like Crump, Sanders and Adams showed greater commitment to the UK than the current crop. But you can guarantee that they, Mauger etc would have prioritised Poland if that is where the money, and the top standard of racing, was. Not saying we should be doormats - I would restrict doubling up to brits and would have given both thorssel and jolder a ban - but some of the criticism of aussies on here is way out of proportion. And the hypocrisy of those who have whinged about polish regulations but see no irony in demanding they be put in place in the uk- is staggering.

And do you think British speedway is better for the absence of anericans/Australians/kiwis.Personally I think it would have been poorer if the likes of Penh all, Morals, Ward etc had not graced these shores. OK england/Britain might have had more success on the world stage, but our domestic league and world speedway would have been much poorer for it.

And tbh you could give 5 nights to championship clubs, if they are prepared to deal with the fact that it means a greater probability of riders missing due to other commitments.

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Tbh from a racing perspective that wouldn't be a bad thing...

If they didn't give the OK then he would have got a 28 day ban?

Why should the FIM have the ability to dictate the contract terms Polish clubs are able to offer independent contractors? It's not a bad idea, but I struggle to see the plus side for the Polish clubs.From the British side, if say Doyle gets replaced by a young Pole, neither the club nor fans win I'd also say cost is an issue, flying and sending equipment to the UK for a one off meeting is unlikely to be costveffectuve for rider or club. I agree though that it's not a battle UK clubs will win. Surely the first step in trying to reach an agreement with any other nation wouldcbevmoving to fixed race night/s.

Don't understand the VISA comment?Your example doesn't really make sense, we are talking about an almost identical situation happening two weeks ago.generally if you have two identical cases goto court in a 2 week period you would expect the same verdict in both?

I fully agree. My view is that both were wrong and noth riders should have copped a ban for witholding services or clubs punished if they allow it.But it is hypocritical and unfair to allow one - with facility- but condemn another. I fully agree. My view is that both were wrong and noth riders should have copped a ban for witholding services or clubs punished if they allow it.But it is hypocritical and unfair to allow one - with facility- but condemn another.

Surely it's also hypocritical, given Thorssel was allowed to skip an EL match for a rescheduled Polish match?

Only Milik.A Laguta is also still in and would be competitive, as too would be Bjerre or Pawlicki. But agree that Milk and kebedevs are the only two I would want in the GPS from that line up.

So why were wolves not punished for allowing Thorssel to race? Surely it should be both or neither?

Wrong Pawlicki? And I thought he'd been having a decent season, just poor in this one. Really? I thought given the conditions there was some decent racing. Agree, the Daugvspils meeting last year I'd one of the great meetings of all time.This season the line up is down in quality, though milik and lebedev are great to watch. Racing this year has still been pretty decent imo

The fixture planning is shambolic and is one of the main causes for riders missing.The Leicester kings Lynn meeting though I think is a rare exception to that rule. Not sure Leicester could have foreseen that KL would ditch holder and batch and replace them with riders who would be unavailable, that Kai would make the euros or Lambert be injured. Or that such inadequate cover would be arranged. KL fault not Leicester's or the fixture planners.

I agree the asset system is stupid, but I'm not sure what you think riding 8 meetings has to do with it?

How is it different though? Both have prioritised a polish fixture over a UK one. Either the rules allow this or they don't. Thorssels was worse because wasn't that a re arranged polish fixture?Personally I would say both should get a ban. But as Thorssels did not I struggle to see why Holder should.

So maybe we should just say if you want to ride in Britain, you can ride only in Britain, your home country and one other league. And Britain must be given priority in event if a fixture clash.Would that seem reasonable?

But surely most do, with the exception of the top stars that have top tier contracts in Poland? Are you saying you would rather not have the world's best rider race here?J Holder missing a CL meeting I understand is an issue, but there I would argue we should simply not allow doubling up for non brits.

Tbh I have no issue with things being put in place which mean places are not filled with mediocre foreigners rather than brits. But at the same time the league is enhanced by having quality young riders from overseas. Is suggest they shouldn't be allowed to double up and agree they should have a finite period to achieve a certain standard. But let's not view them as "using" the UK. Many people take a job to become proficient at it, then move elsewhere once a better job cones along. That's life and it's actually desirable. So long as they have given their all during the "apprenticeship" period everyone wins. But why? In what way would British speedway be in a better state if it hadn't given chances to the likes of ward holder fricke, or going further back crump and Adams or crump and sanders?

Well yes, but Holder senior is in quite a unique situation, given circumstances with his son.He also wouldn't be impacted by a tightening up on requirements at this stage. Do people really think British speedway is poorer for its fans having witnessed the likes of holder X2, Doyle, Ward, Morris Kurtz develop? Presumably kiwis would be impacted by any change too - would swindon fans prefer that BWD not be allowed to ride here?

Can you explain the logic given that a UK work visa does not allow someone to work in Poland?

Pretty sure Swindon would have gone bankrupt in the 80s if that was the case...