waiheke1

You could say the same about Champions League football for example. The only way around tghis would be to stage qualifier sat the start of the season, but I think that is simply not practical due to the level of commitment (sponsors etc) required to compete in the GP, unfair on clubs not knowing if a rider will be in the GP etc. Unless you are one of the people who makes that decision, you can't know for sure that that's the case surely? I'd suspect that even in those cases, Ward and Hampel would still get picks. Ward is a sensational talent, and from both a sporting and commerical perspective its hard to see IMG leaving him out. It would be farcical if Hampel got left out, and I can't think of any instances where someone so deserving of a pick was ignored. Sidney - previously you've been pretty vocal about increasing the number of slots available to qualifiers from outside the GP and reducing the number of "awarded" slots, despite the fact that the latter is a more effective way of ensuring the best riders are in the series. Have you changed your viewpoint? Of course one issue is that without psychic powers, you can never be certain that the 15 riders you think will be the best in 2013 will actually be the best come next year - but best you can do is take past performances (along with a subjective view on "potential") to choose this. The best way to ensure the top riders qualified may be to replace the knock out qualifiers with a qualifying series, and perhaps bonus points awarded additionally for performances in domestic leagues, WC events, U21 WC? However, not sure that would be practical, and the current system does at leave the possibility, however remore, of a romantic surprise qualifier. Whats the point of qualifiers ? To allow riders the opportunity to qualify on merit from outside the series? It appears a farce? Care to elaborate? Face fits?Right country?How many others from your country in the GP already? The world's two largest sporting events, World Cup football and Olympics have restrictions on number of participants from any particular regio/country. Formula I awards all the driving sports based on a range of factors (including commercial). Injured so welcome back? Were/are you really opposed to Emil and Nikci being granted Wildcards last year, or Hampel next year? Do you think the GP is better or worse for their inclusion? Work out a system that gets the best 15 or 20 riders in the GPs. Any suggestions? Get rid of qualifiers and just award places based on certain criteria?

Agree.

You could walk from Eden park to western springs in about half an hour. I think u should say, if marketed properly, the test cricket could benefit from the gp.

If holder wins the wc this yeardoes that change peoples list of great aussies ? leapfrogging ward sanders crumb snr?

Jonsson last three seasons: 9th, 2nd, 9th (probable) Hampel: 2nd, 3rd, 10th? (with almost half the series missed) Add to that that there are already two Swedes likely to be in the series, but only one Pole, and I think Hampel is clearly ahead of Jonsson So, I think 3 of the WC are "nailed on" - Ward, Hampel, Tai. On the "Tai" thread I've stated my reasons why I believe Britain deserve a spot - but to add to that, World Cup football for example has a certain number of places based on region, to ensure a diversity of countries qualifying (otherwise it is likely there would be no Asian/Oceanian teams in the finals). It's one spot, not the five that used to be gifted to the continentals , so while I respect the views of those who don't believe Britain should get a spot - I think they should get behind Tai 100% . For the 4th slot I'd suggest there are four contenders (assuming none of these qualify through the Challenge) AJ - Pros: runner up in 2011, 9th(?) in 2012, Cons: 2nd time in three seasons outside top8, already two Swedes qualified Vaculik: Excellent pefrmances in GPS, no other Slovakians in field NKI: Pros: Outstanding rider of 2012 of those outside the GP series. Only one Dane already in field. Cons: Poor GP record MJJ: Pros: Only one Dane in field, youngest and arguably brightest talent of the lot. Cons: Currently probably the weakest of the 4 riders. Personally, I'd give it to AJ, but would be a very close call over Vaculik and NKI - so fingers crossed they make it through the Challenge.

Valid points Humphrey. However, I'd suggest F1 would probaby not be devalued if it dropped to 16 drivers. Tennis tournaments are straight knock out affairs (hence a larger number of particpants can be used) and I'd also suggest the gap between a player ranked say ten and a player ranked 100 is a lot smaller in tennis than in speedway. But also most sports have a certain number which just mathematically works - for tennis its 128, for the Football World Cup I'd say its 32, for the Euros I'd say its 16 (I think the Rugby World Cup would benefit from dropping to 16) for SPeedway I think 16 is the number that "just works." I'm really looking forward to next year's GP, as assuming the "right" qualifiers from the challenge (say NKI, Vaculik, MJJ) you'd have a line up next year where potentially any of the riders (exceptions perhaps being Tai and MJJ) could be rostrum contenders, and some top quality riders would miss out on the top 8. Outside of that, I'd say you're really only missing G Laguta of the rider's you'd expect able to make an impact, although there's a plethora of young Polish talent (Pawlickis, Dudek, Janowski, Zmarzlik) who could make the grade over the next couple of years. To me, that indicates that they have the numbers right.

Do you think there ay be just the tiniest bit of difference between seeking out a camera, running up to it and swearing into it vs. reacting when you have a camera thrust into your face? I suggest that had Twitter been around 20 years ago the riders would havecome across equally badly! That said, watching footage of th 82 World Final, it is amazing how relatively calm and polite KC is on the phone to the ref. That said, when the track mic man interviewed him he said he was going to sue the referee, I'm not sure if that is better or worse than what Pedersen said? Also, we live in time where the C word is used on TV - I susect that swearing in the media has become more "acceptable" and this is reflected in the usage by riders. I'm not sure anyone who has posted on here is blind to Nicki's faults? The incident itself has divided opinion, but i think the majority view is that Nicki was unlucky. Most agree that Nicki can be "dirty" but also "box office" - but also that almost all World Champions have that hard edge - was Penhall dirty because he barged Nielsen aside in 81 and took Carter to the fence in 82? His outbursts about the ref has been defended on the grounds that SKy knew exacty what the reaction would be when they thrust the camera in his face, but I don't think anyone has condoned his comments about AJ Exactly. Imagine the reaction if Sky tried to interview Alex Ferguson a minute after a controversial penalty had been given against Utd in the run in to te title. This is a strange hyprocricy in general - Rock stars can swear, do drugs, cheat on their partners - it's expected. But when sportsmen - who have similar amounts of money and fame from a young age - do the same it is scandalous. Anyway my thoughts: Nicki was unlucky, and understandably angry about it. I'm sure the broadcasters won't be unhappy about his rant. People moan about today's riders being bland, but then moan when someone is like Nicki. Was there ever a less popular (outside of his own team's support) than Kenny Carter, but I reckon he must have guaranteed a few hundred extra on the gate each meeting, becase everyone loves to boo the pantomime villain. If Nickis was excluded on reputation, he has no-one to blame but himself, just as if Joey Barton puts the heed on someone, he might get a less sympathetic reaction than say Zidane did. Will Nicki's "dirtiness" cloud how he is viewed by history - I doubt it (and he won't care if it does). Schumacher is still viewed as a Formula I great but he could certainly be dirty. but by saying that, are you saying that you know Blazeaway to be one thereby indicating ...

perhaps they should move the GP to 7 am on the Monday morning. Should avoid clashing with any other local sports events, and would be a more viewer friendy slot for the Northern Hempisphere viewers. Kiwi - do you reckon the 2012 GP would be the highest attendance for any NZ sporting event outside of AB tests? I'm struggling to think of any others that would get around 15k, though I may be overlooking something obvious?

We're having a superb GP this season, with some great racing, a title race which looks like going right down to the wire, and (IMHO) the best and fairest points system the GP has had - why would you try to tinker with that formula? The football Euro Champs is a classic example - it's a brilliant tournament, normally a super standard of football, and 16 teams works perfectly for a tournament in which practically every match has something hingeing on it. Of course some very good teams have missed out on qualifying, hence the move now to a more bloated 24 team tournament, at which the standard will not be so high, and the format not as "clean". I agree with Blazeaway, that to increase the numer would dilute the quality of the riders. Yes some good riders may miss out, but that's sport. You really don't believe there are 16 riders of suitable quality around currently? And surely practically ANY sport (golf might be a exception?) you are going to dilute the quality if you go from 16 to 24 participants? TBH I can't see an increase happenning, as others have mentioned cost being the main factor.

Test cricket in nz would be very lucky to get a couple of thousand people last years gp got 15000 so not quite sure what your point is? if anything crowds to both may benefit slightly due to extra brit presence in Auckland

Hampel qualifying is certainly possible, though I'd say itshighly improbable. I can't see any reason for him to really try to bust a gut in the last few meetngs (he can't make top 3 and must know he will be given a spot next year if he doesn't make the top 8) - so I'd guess he'll ease his way back into racing in preparation for next year. If he does make it, you can only see it being at the expense of AJ dropping out of the top8, and if that was the case I would expect AJ to be given a wildcard for next year.

My word some people are hard to please. Off the top of my head there were the following races from the meetign which were absolutely top drawer: Crump v Pedersen, Emil vs Holder and both Semis. Plenty of other decent races as well. I think Rob (lucifer Sam) mentioned the 81 World Final and the Penhall Olsn race. Judging by some of the comments on here, I bet some people would have gone home from Wembley 81 unhappy saying: There were only two decent races. No Brit on the podium, how depressing. Three top competitors riders had there hopes dashed by engine failures, whato an unfair system. Total anti-climax with Penhall just needig a point from his last ride. Four continental riders were totally out of their depth, what a joke giving slots to riders based on nationality. What a farce that PC culdn't enter the world champs this year - how can anyone call Penhall World Champion when not all riders in the world got to take part. The crowd was nowhere near as good as those in the 40s and 50s. Wembley is old and run down, and accomodation in London is two expensive. Beer is more expensive than in my local as well. Pre-meetig entertainment was rubbish, and didn't think much of those start tarts. You know what, I might not go to a Wembley final ever again... I thought it was an excellent meeting, in an excellent GP series, think people shoudl appreciate what they have with this GP

Personally, I think Tai should be in the field next year. GB (or specifically England) is still one of the top 5 speedway nations in the world when you take into account riding strngth, riding numbers, domestic league strength and commercial considerations (e.g crowds attending the GP, and presumably also televised viewing figures). Therefore, I believe they deserve one spot, just as I'd support a Wildcard for a Dane or a Swede in the not impossible event that they failed to have a qualifier for a season (next year for example, it would be possible to see a t op8 of say Gollob Hampel, Emil, Darcy, Holder, Crump, Hancock, and one of Jonsson/Vaculi/Pedersen). Over the years lots of much smaller speedway nations than England have been granted world final spots, and with riders that were utterly uncompetitive - Tai and Harris may not be in the top 10 riders in the world, but they would certainly be in the top 30, and not out of their depth. So, if we are having one British spot then in my view it has to go either to Harris (arguaby still the best Brit) or Tai (arguably the Brit with most potential that would eb competitive at this stage). Harris, with all due respect to both riders, is a poor man's Chris Morton- and the mighty Mort never finished better than 8th in a World Final. At his peak (83/84) he could have challenged for a rosutrum spot undr a GP format - but the fact is that both Chris's gating ws simply not good enough at the highest evel, and it is hard to see Harris ever making the top8 again over a season, let alone a rostrum spot. Tai I think by 2015 could potentially be making the top 8 on merit,and by the end of the decade be callenging for a rostrum spot - so to my mind he has to be the number one option for the British GP spot for next year.

Hampel and Ward are nailed to be offerred the first two wildcards. Tai and Vaculik are almost certain to get the other two. The only way I can see tis changing is if: 1. Lindback makes the top 8. If so, whoever drops out of the current top8 would likely get a wildcard next year at the expense of Tai/Vaculik (probably the latter) - unless it was Fast freddie in which case he may miss out. 2. If Vaculik qualifies via the Challenge. In that instance I think the last wildcard would be likely to go to (in order, assuming they don't qualify through the challenge): NKI, Lindback, MJJ, G Laguta. Personally, I'd have G Laguta ehind NKI as the next best rider outside the GP, but the above would be my guess. In terms of the GP Challenge: I'd like to see NKI, Vaculik and either Lindback/MJJ qualify. Mr prediction though would be NKI, Pavlic and Lindback. On the Ward issue - discussion here is about who should be in nxt year's GP, which should only include discussion on speedway issues. I remember suggesting that Phil Rising was unwise posting shortly after the trial a thread on how great Darcy is - I thought it inappropriately timed - but similarly, I think people re-raising the issue on this thread are out of line. No one is defending Darcy's actions, and I certainly wouldn't suggest that just bcause he was found not guilty that it makes eveything ok - but IMHO this is not the place to express those opinions.

Add to that the Moran brothers, peter Collins, Andy smith, sudden Sam, Jan o. Oh and declan eccles

Harris pavlic emil hancock

Really? I'd say it'll be five out of Lindback, PP, Andersen, Madsen, Zagar and Kildemand. Anyone know why G Laguta isn't taking part in the qualifiers? Apart from Darcy he's arguably the best rider outside the current series. And he may well struggle to get a wildcard slot, as it looks like Ward, Tai and Hampel (if needed ) would be assured of three of these, with the other maybe going to a second Dane unless once qualifies trhough the GP Challenge.

N Pedersen Emil Harris Andersen

Maybe I'm blind but I can't see his name - is darcy ward not involved in the qualifies?

Cockney Robin – good points Jessup – was actually originally in my top 10 for both the 70s and 80s. In the 70s I eventually dropped him out for Crump, on the grounds that he didn’t get on the podium in World Finals, wouldn’t have been a title contender any year under a GP system, and domestically wasn’t as strong as Crump. In the 80s, I included Knudsen ahead of him on the grounds that Knudsen missed out on w World Title due to a controversial incident in 86, and despite injuries which held his career back, was a force at both domestic and international level over the whole decade. Jessup but for engine troubles in 81 would likely have added a second silver medal to that won in 1980, and under a GP system would likely have finished 1st in 80 and second in 81. At the end of the day, I leant towards riders who were world class for a significant portion of the decade (Sigalos, Penhall and Lee I guess were exceptions to this), whereas Jessup was World Class 80-82, but then tailed off noticeably from there. Sanders – was close to my lists in both the 70s/80s, was probably number 12 in my 80s list. He had an excellent World Finals record, but other than the Pairs final in 83 can’t remember too many other stand out performances from him in big meetings, and under a GP system can’t see him having picked up any medals. Wigg (80s) and Tatum (80s and 90s) were also both just outside my lists , as too was Ermolenko (80s). Wiltshire, Nilsen and Gustaffson were all also close to making my 90s list, but not sure who I would leave out to accommodate them. And 2010s you are right, a host of youngsters coming through (esp Poles and Danes), some of whom will end up being world class, some who will be good but not world beaters, some will never live up to their promise.

If we're to give top 10 Poles of the 80s, or top 10 kiwis of the noughties, we're going to be scraping the barrel a bit... Ok, here's my first crack at top 10 riders by decade, starting at the 60s (I don't know enough about the 50s and prior ) and including a guess at the 2010s. 60s Fundin Briggs Mauger Knuttson Craven Plechanov Moore Woryna Wyglenda GNorden 70s Mauger Olsen Collins Michanek Lee Simmons Louis Autrey Plech P Crump 80s Nielsen Penhall Gundersen Lee Carter S Moran Pedersen Morton Sigalos Knudsen 90s Rikkardson Nielsen Ermolenko Jonsson Hamil Hancock Pedersen Havelock Gollob Knudsen 2000s Crump Rickardson Pedersen Gollob Adams Loram Hancock Sullivan Hampel 2010s Ward Emil Holder Hancock Gollob Hampel N Pedersen Crump Dudek Tai Woffinden (here's hoping!)

Really? I guess when the greatest ever rider is discussed, Ole is likely to be left out, as there are 5 riders with more individual World Titles, including two with double his tally. However, when discussing greatest riders ever, I'd be very surprised if there were many, if any, who wouldn't rank him in the top dozen riders of all time (or post-war). Personally I'd rank him about 7th, behind Mauger, Briggs, Fundin, Rickardson, Nielsen andpossibly J Crump. That said, Ole at his peak was arguably better than a number of those I'd rank above him, but he wasn't as co nsistent (or consistently brilliant) as those others. didn't realise Speedway was so gentrified. Sid - do you really condier whinging about the ref on twitter "losing in the right manner?" Not saying Nicki did either, surely deserves a fine for his antics after the race with Emil. Overall, a very entertaining GP, and I think the ref got ll the calls correct. That said, if Holder had come off down the previous straight, I think the ref would have had to exclude Nicki - Holder paid the price for staying on his bike then trying to dish it back. Any update on Hampel - is it a broken leg or dislocated ankle? How long will he be out for - I remember Carter riding a number of meetings pretty soon after breaking a leg, but I guess Hampel has no really chance of the title this season now, so best to ffully recover and re-group for next year?

Does hampelscore zero or get the reserves points?

Not really true, world champ would have been nickI p.

Thing is Sidney, you can't "fluke" a GP title, let alone 3! You certainly don't win it just be being "dirty". The Moran's are amongst my very favourtie riders of all time, but to rank them (or Sigalos) ahead of Nicki is laughable. Kelly Moran never made a top3 in a World Final, woulddn't have got close under a GP system, never even won a major World Final qualifying meeting. Sigalos and Shaun both had better records than Kelly, but still managed just one World Final medal apiece (under a GP system, Siggy would probably have finished 3rd in 82, Shaun 3rd in 84,85 and possibly 89 or 90). The latter two would both be definitely in the top 10 riders of the 80s (Kelly wouldn't) - but no way do they compare to Nicki (and I say that as a much bigger Moran fan than a Nicki fan). As for Olsen, I too would rate Ole ahead of Nicki (though I'd revise that view if Nicki wins this season) - but I certainly don't think Ole would wipe the floor with him! I understand that you don't like Nicki, and that's fair enough, but I think you're allowing your personal feelings to cloud your judgement of just what a good rider he's been (and still is).