waiheke1

Not sure how Vaculik gets in ahead of Nicki tbh. Nicki also had injury problems but averaged close to a point per meeting more. Zagar comfortably higher than both. But i guess with Madsen getting one it is at expense of Nicki. Nicki and Lambert instead of Madsen and Vaculik would have been my preference, but could argue either way. Be interesting to see how Holder bounces back.

Is this the world final statement where you disputed the assertion thst world finals were won by riders nowhere near the best in the world? Surely that Is a fact. 73 and 83 Are the obvious examples. But there are many others- Lee was never better than Jessup in 1980. Mauger wasn't best in the world in 79 (or 77). Havelock not in 92. It's hard to name a gp world champion who "got lucky". Logan and Holder are arguably the "worst" gp champs but to win over a series it is hardly just luck..m

I thought it was because of football? And they didn't want corners being dug up for a speedway track. I could be wrong. You could argue it was downhill after 81 for the world final - racing in 90 was excellent but 81 was maybe the last great world final- stadium, crowd,line-up,racing and a world champ who was clearly the best rider in the world - the full package.

No. But recent years has been very close to it. Who has been missing that could have been a contender? Or even top 8? In the world final most years you were missing someone. Olsen 76, Collins 78, Mauger 80, Gundersen 82, Lee 84, Carter 85 etc.

Polish top flight is stronger than the BL was because it has the world's best riders condensed into 8 teams. That plus the heat format means a 9pt old BL rider is more like a 7pt rider Bwitcher has never claimed the current British top flight is stronger than in the past. He has said most BL HL would drop their average under the format, which is a statistical fact .

No chance imo. Holder, Vaculik, Milik, Drabik, Smektala, Fric ke etc all far more likely

There were no restrictions back in the day. You are correct about Mauger. Gundersen did once agsinst Aces as well if i recall. Mort started 83 at number 4 For Aces. And plenty of examples of top of average not riding at 1. It is the heat format which skews averages, not the format.

Except the quality of racing in speedway gps is better than it was "back in the day." So I'm not sure what the parallels you are seeing are? Unless you mean sports with better quality racing are less popular than F1? If you genuinely think speedway hasnt always been a sport where first from the gate and best bikes is a massive advantage, maybe ask why Mauger won 6 world titles to peter Collins 1.

Today

Most people by now would stop digging, say "sorry i missed the word "southern" when I read your post and saw only "premier league." My bad and sorry about being a dick about it afterwards." Not keep blaming the original poster after being literally the only person to must-read it, and then have the temerity to call THEM stupid...

Yep 12th in averages ahead of Dudek Milik Hampel Holder Pawlicki

Not much difference. I would say PL slightly stronger. Then Swedish elitsiren. Then Polish top flight.

So why not just give that as a reason instead of spinning some BS fairy tale. I don't think anyone would have had an issue it being moved due to stadium availability. Noone sane would expect speedway to take priority over rugby in Wales.

And someone believed that?

It would be very nice if the real reason turned out to be a July GP at the NSS. We can dream at least...

Ok I'm sure this meeting was great to be at, big crowd, great stadium, as close a finish as you could wish for but... The starts, while not as bad as some meetings of thst era, typically had the riders already strung out by the first bend. The track was rubbish with just one line - if that was a GP today everyone would be complaining about the poor track prep and lack of passing. The racing certainly not a patch on the SWC or what SON served up this year. I disagree with the poster who suggested Mich could have bodes his time - what were there, two passes round the outside all meeting? Camera angles have certainly improved- not sure how people praise the production when there is no replay of the heat 12 close finish, and heat 2 was missed altogether. I'd also suggest that Briggs as comments guy adds far less than Tatum. I get why people enjoy this meeting, and fully understand it being memorable due to the dramatic finish but - I certainly wouldn't trade thst meeting for the world class fare served up the last few seasons in the SGPs plus SWC/SON.

Noone ever said that Poland had to abide by GB rules. Just that as soon as Hans lined up at the tapes in a competitive meeting anywhere in the world then by definition his injury had not been "season ending." And only a "season ending" injury was eligible for a guest replacement. You can argue from there the merits as to whether guest points should have been retrospectively removed, or simply the guest facility removed from that point onwards. A season ending injury has to cover the globe otherwise it would be open to abuse (And in this instance I am not disputing at all the seriousness of Hans' injury)

Largely agree. The theory is fine. For most u21 champs it would come a little too soon. Smektala for example I would see as being around as competitive as Cook has been (perhaps better on the polish tracks) - not disgraced, but never going to make top 10. I don't think any of the champions since it moved to the "mini gp" format would have been out of their depth in the following season's series, in fact since Emil won in 2007 he and every rider since have been quality. But in a lot of cases perhaps things would come a season or two too early. That said, I would be happy to see Lambert get a wild card for next year.

I imagine it would simply not be financially viable. Not convinced it would help track prep. Would have no objection to the u21 getting a permanent wc in theory.

Not sure he would have moved to the aces.87 would have been the last chance to move to Hyde Rd and maybe he could have replaced PC - but would Bammy have outlaid so much to bring him there when presumably he knew at the start of the season he was considering selling? Odsal would probably have suited him better than kirky lane. Fully agree re 85. He would have gone in regarded as one of four riders with a chance of winning it. Draw would have played a big part given how favourable gate 1 was, particularly in the first half of the meeting.

I would say Carter > Gundersen around Hyde Rd.

Most and Peter Collins were the best I saw. Darcy the best in the modern era.

Agree. But my post was referring to Dudek.

Didnt he have a fall and an ef? He won the BLRC and nordic final and top scored in the world pairs, so he hardly had a bad season. Would have been in the mix for a rostrum place in a gp series in 76 id say.

I think he would hsve relied on a wild card. He would have been very unlikely to be in the 1991 gp field. His 14th place in the overseas final indicates it would have been unlikely he would have made it through qualifiers. Would he hsve deserved a wildcard on merit assuming there were 4 wildcards to hsnd out?