waiheke1

Restricting to the 80s: carter had 2 blrc lee 0. 2 british titles lee 0. Carter 1 pairs title and two runners up, lee won a wtc. Neither won an overseas or inter continental title. Carter topped the bl aversges, lee didnt. Carter was regularly englands top test performer, lee didnt top score for england in any test series. Of course, if you include lee's achievement s in the 70s it is no contest, and whereas lee is one of the top 3 post war brits (imho), wheras carter may make the top dozen. But in the 80s it is "only" world final night where lee surpassed carter. For me that is enough to rank lee ahesd of carter as best brit of the 80s, but I was unsurprised that statistical ly carter out performed him.

Well, if you can convince the nimbys to allow it at that hour, underwrite bill buckley for any losses incurred running a meeting at that hour, and run the european gps at an nz friendly viewing hour - you might just have a deal. Otherwise a 6am rise with a can of htfu should do the trick for you northern hemisphere light weights.

sidney, that giant font you have used in quoting hurts my eyes! remember, this is based purely on the 80s, where Carter certainly out performed PC and arguably Lee as well (in all areas other than world finals Carter had a better record than Lee in the 80s). If I get the chance I'll do the same for the 70s, where undoutably PC would emerge top, I'd imagine Lee and Simmonsw ould be next in line.

Alright, to re-open an old topic. I’ve spent a bit of time devising a system for rating riders’ performances in any given season, and have applied this to each year in the 80s. World Championship Qualifying meetings, World Final, Internationals (Pairs, TC and Tests) and British League meetings are considered and each of those categories are given equal weighting (22.5%). Additionally performances in the BLRC are also considered (10%). The output is an “average” which I have included here for comparative purposes only, as it is not meaningful in itself. If you want to try to make a meaningful interpretation of the actual score, the top 15 riders in the worlds rankings for any given year do tend to add up to close to 138, so could be taken as an estimate of what the rider would score as an average in a GP round had GPs been running. Based on the rankings, and taking riders’ top three seasons in the 80s, the list of 20 Brits would be: 1 Kenny Carter 11.51 2 Michael Lee 10.92 3 Dave Jessup 10.36 4 Chris Morton 9.67 5 Kelvin Tatum 9.63 6 Jeremy doncaster 8.90 7 Simon Wigg 8.70 8 Peter Collin 8.29 9 Les Collins 8.09 10 Alan Grahame 7.36 11 Simon Cross 7.22 12 John Davis 7.17 13 Andy Grahame 6.75 14 Neil Evitts 6.62 15 John Louis 6.52 16 Phil Collins 6.49 17 Gordon Kennet 6.15 18 Andy Smith 6.14 19 Malcolm Simmons 6.09 20 Marvyn Cox 6.07 This is not dissimilar to the list I posted earlier, though notably KC emerges comfortably on top, and the three “veterans” Louis, Kennett and Simmons all make the list. Some other points of note: Dave Jessup was the only British rider to finish top of the rankings in any year (1980) Kenny Carter and Mike Lee were the only two other Brits to make the top3 in any year, KC being 2nd in both 81 and 82 and Lee 3rd in both 80 and 83. Jessup would have finished 3rd in the 81 rankings if not for his two ef in the world final. KC (81,82,85) and Tatum (86,88,89) were both the top Brits in 3 years, with Jessup (80), Lee (83), Wigg (84) and Doncaster (87) being the others. Morton was in the top 5 Brits every year except for 82 and 89, and in the top 10 in the world on six occasions (80,81,83,84,86,88). Tatum was in the top 2 Brits every year 1985-89, and was in the top 6 riders in the world every year in that period. 1980 as clearly the best season for England, with four of the top 6 spots being held by Brits (Jessup (1), Lee (3), Peter Collins (4), Chris Morton (6). 1986 was the worst season, with only two Brits in the top 10 and Tatum the top ranked at 6th (Mort the other one 9th). If instead of basing the results on top three seasons you based it on the top 5 seasons, the top 10 changes slightly, rewarding the consistency of Mort and Tatum. 1 Kenny Carter 10.29 2 Kelvin Tatum 9.52 3 Chris Morton 9.29 4Michael Lee 8.99 5 Dave Jessup 8.62 6 Simon Wigg 8.34 7 Peter Collin 7.67 8Jeremy doncaster 7.60 9 Les Collins 7.28 10 Alan Grahame 6.77 Alternatively, if you based it on a single season peak (year and overall world ranking given in brackets): Top 10 (based on single seaon peak) 1 Dave Jessup 13.03 1980 (1) 2 Kenny Carter 12.15 1982 (2) 3 Michael Lee 11.88 1983 (3) 4 Peter Collins 10.12 1980 (4) 5 Chris Morton 9.84 1981 (6) 6 Les Collins 9.83 1982 (7) 7 Kelvin Tatum 9.72 1988 (5) 8 Jeremy Doncaster 9.59 1987 (5) 9 Simon Wigg 9.40 1989 (5) 10 John Davis 8.80 1980 (12) Or if you wanted to reward performances over the whole decade and based the rankings on cumulative points: 1 Chris Morton 2 Simon Wigg 3 Kenny Carter 4 Dave Jessyp 5 Les Collins 6 John David 7 Alan Grahame 8 Kelvin Tatum 9 Michael Lee 10 Andy Grahame Interestingly, under none of the four systems of rankings does Mike Lee, the most popular selection of top Brit above, emerge as top. I’d suggest this indicates: You can look at all the stats you like, but ultimately what really matters is winning the world title, everything else is secondary Results and stats cannot reflect the sheer natural talent that was Lee Kelvin Tatum was the big surprise for me from the rankings, emerging as comfortably the best Brit over the second half of the decade, whereas I have always rated him behind Wigg.

And tbh, even some if those professions aren't ruled out. I'm financial controller for a decent sized organisation, I've had members of my team with dreads, tribal tattoos on their arms etc. and would re-hire them happilly. Probably my best recruitment decision was hiring a young guy with those earings that tai had - smart, hard working, lots of iniative etc.

Tbf, gb surely could have entered a team, but only released riders who didnt hsve a fixture ckadh. So sent cook and worrall for this one, tai and harris for the next etc (examples only havent checked fixtures). What I would really like the bspa to organize would be ofgicial test series against the likes of aussie and Sweden

You would expect a better attendance though if it was a genuine world title at stake surely? Just as you would expect a gp to outsell a sec event?Surely you would sell out a gb vrnue - excluding cardiff - or get a good turn out in poland for a sanctioned pairs titke event? I could be wrong but would love to see it back on the cslendar.

Just watched it and enjoyed it, thouggt the racing was pretty good.my thouggts: Ward showed why he is favourite for the title. Gollob emil and laguta/dudek showed why the 2014 gp would be so much better eith them in it thsn harris batch and aj. Good to see lindback looking sharp. Nikki looked regularly like he could fence nki. Smolinksi going to strugglr in the gps on tbis showing (no real surprise). Think in pairs events, if you are going yo have semis and final points should be carried fwd, so a "shared" heat rewards the top qualified pair. Dont agree with "reserves" in a psirs event. Dont understand why bsi dont run a eorld title pairs event.

You decide who are suitable role models for your kids based on what they look like? That sure is teaching them kids what's really important.

Have you ever actual ly sponsored a gp rider? Are you planning to? It seems plenty of companies are happy to sponsor tai - might have something to do with him being world champion... What about that beckham bloke. Loads of tatts. He must be struggling to get any work advertising anything...

Not the right image for advertising earl Grey tea or bridge club memberships. But for attracting thr younger generation and the extreme sports fans he has the ideal Image imho.It's 2014 not 1940.

Bjerre and killer at 18s and pk at 33 look thr most appealing. Darcy tai and nki obviousky favourites but not much value. Bv at 9/1 for el looks decent? For nz gp the teo previous winners hsmpel @ 6/1 and hsncock @ 16/1 look the best value.

I'm in partial agreement.I think the rule change to excluding fir touching the tapes is one of the few rule changes speedway got right. But... if you can get a flyer without touching them, I agree it should be race on. Nothing more frustrating thsn seeing a rider make a genuinely great start but the ref call a re run.

I would have thought erc was ok as representing leicester?

I see your point twk, and agree the old uncluttered race jackets look better. However speedway needs all the money it can get, so understand the reasons for sponsors taking prominent places. Team kevlars is a definite improvement imho. And I dontvthink falling crowds are in anyway attributable to race jackets or kevlars, there are a myriad of reasons, but I dont think those are amongst them.

Thought it had been confirmed on the visas thread that he got a tier 5 visa approved back in feb.

Many thanks

Flying shale, available from roo games, is an excellent speedway simulation program, though doesnt have more recent seasons or heat formats.

Would anyone have scorecard for this meeting? Many thanks

What I really want to know scb is whether your racecard is "truly innovative?"

Because someone asked, acknowledging that they were chsnging the subhect, about who is the greatest ipswich rider of all time...

Isnt emil sponsored by red bull? You cant I imagine they, or his other sponsors (outside of russia?) Will be happy with this?

Looki g at gp odds, withdrawal of emil doesn't seem to have shifted other odds (although holder now only 7-1). You could cover ward tai holder nki hampel and Pedersen to win the title for a 10% return which seems easy money. Think all those riders look decent value now. Just wish nz tab offerred betting on this, as cant be bothered eith opening a uk account.

Supplemented of course by the "bread and butter" league income, and topped up by bookings in open meetings.As you say, Riders have never been well paid for world championship meetings or representing their country. It is a real shame for all speedway fans that emil won't be competing. And a very strange day as I agree with everything shovlar has posted on this thread!!!

Agree, but football does now allow some swapping. Rory fallon represented england at age group level, but was then allowed to represent the all whites.