waiheke1

One of the main issues in working out a way forward, is that even the fans can't seem to agree on what is important. Some think a league of 8-10 meeting each other home and away is optimal, others want a load of meetings some want to see the top stars, others just want riders that race exclusively in England, others don't care so long as the riders are quite evenly matched some want races where riders are evenly matched, yet others whinge about this year's format which ensures riders of similar standard almost every heat. many want more british riders, but then moan when something like FTR is introduced some want to see their team win, for others a close meeting is more important Everyone wants to see good racing, but except for tracks which are exceptionally good (Bydgosh, Hyde Rd etc.) or bad (Beaumont PArk?), does the quality of racing actually impact on the attendance? some want the meeting to be wrapped up more quickly, but others want second halfs re-instated people long for the days when riders just had one bike each, yet plenty more would moan about a riders whose bikes are no up to standard (anyone think Tai may not have his best bikes in the UK?) Plenty are in favour of play offs, others are very anti them some complain that the play offs mean less is at stake in individual matches, yet neglect that a couple of months into the season in the old league system, only about three teams still had any realistic chance of being champions. Many decry the double point rule as "unfair", yet want a return to the old tac sub rule, which was more uinfair some think Sky coverage is imperative, others think it is part of the problem Which of the above factors actually impact on attendance? It's impossible to tell really. But I'd suggest: Star riders help crowds i'm sure, at least amongst the current and lapsed speedway fraternity A winning team i'd suggest helps more than close matches (a weak side will have closer matches at home, but typically struggling teams crowds go down not up) Crowds for the play offs are the best of the season, indicating that they Personally I think the way to go is perhaps two set night (Monday/Thursday), with 8-10 teams, home and away once each, then play offs. EL to have priority over PL and NL on these nights. TBH, I don't see way around guests/rr as cover for injured riders, no suitable solution has been found in the last 50 years, and a squad system likely to be unaffordable (suggests guests allowed only for Heat leaders, each side to have a PL rider as "no 8" to cover 2nd strings, and a local Brit to cover reseve slot)? minimum 3 brits per team (2 at reserve, one of whom must be under23) either have a decent points limit, or possibly something like an IPL style draft of riders. If the schedule aligned, you'd likely retain the star names currently here, re-attract the likes of Holder/Lindgren, and the young poles/danes/sweded who want to delveop by rcing on the UKs range of track sizes/shapes. each track also to get some type of "shared event" meeting(e.g. ELRC, best pairs, 4 team tourney, British Final, test matches) Clubs work together for concerted social media marketing campaign. Target unis etc with 10 quid specials and cheap drinks, all tracks to invest in decent sound system, live local acts and other entertainment get meetings over in an hour and a half - aim is for a package something like how T20 revitalized cricket Sky TV is a reality and needs to be used positively - if EL doesn't screen, people still have the chance of watching multiple meetings online or TV each week anyway - if you get the live product right, people will come to watch it, especially if you get pricing right fo rthese meetings. The alternative is one big league with no starts, but look how many people on here moan about dilution of product, by which they mean loss of quality riders. I can only see crowds dipping further A couple of other thoughts: Clubs in pretty much all sports struggle financially, even in the EPL etc. - the nature of sports competition often drives clubs to spend more than they can afford to achieve success. I'd suggest very few promoters/owners etrc do it for the money, its for the love of the sport, the ego boost etc. People whinge about the racing not being as good or as close as it used to be - have a look back at some old league meetings (as an example, there are a couple from 1982 at Hyde Rd on youtube), and tell me that the racing then was substantially better or closer than it is now. We have selective memories, and the atmosphere etc,. generated by larger crowds is a big factor. Bigger crowds generate bigger crowds, and vice versa (a large crowd generates more atmosphere, enhancing the experience. one extra person going may lead to them bringing others. The reverse applies - people stop going because their mates have stopped going, the banter isn't the same anymore etc.) The fact is that the racing and package in the GPS and the SWC is as good or better than it has ever been, it is not the sport that is fundamentally flawed, it is the EL as it is currently run.

Hampel 120 more

Plenty of people on here whinge about the dilution of standard because of the introduction of fast track. How many more would complain if you lost also the likes of tai darcy puk zagar pawlicki etc? If your business is struggling, the easy option is to cut costs. However that can only be done to a point. You then need to look at how to grow revenue, if you keep cutting costs you end up with an inferor product that few will pay for and less profitability than before. One of speedways issues seems to be that not enough focus has been put on the - admitted ly difficult - task of how to increase revenue.

My rankings are quite skewed towards gp performances hence tai's high ranking (on performances across the domestic leagues he was ranked 9th). Piotr was ranked 19th based on league performances, but ranking was drsgged down by bombing out of the sgp qualifiers to 37th (dolgin's rankings have him 17th). Havent updated yet for under21 champs, but if he does win that it will move him I'd expect into the early 20s.

thanks Arnie G. Clearly Dolgin's work involves far more effort than mine, and key differences are that his is skewed more heavily towards league performances (I assign much higher weightings to other events), cover a much more comprehensive range of leagues, and incorporate performances over a longer period of time. Despite that, our rankings, at the top end at least, are remarkably similar. The other interesting thing is seeing a rider like NKI has a higher "all time best" than riders who have won the world title, such as Hancock, Pedersen and Holder, which makes me wonder if perhaps riders are riding an increasing number of meetings, and hence able to obtain higher scores?

Arnie g - where can I find Dolgin's rankings?

Yeah, I dont see any way you can make morr money on aspeedway game than a "real job" - would hsve to be a llabour of love. A decent fantasy speedway game is a good idea. Would be a lot easier to do for polish or swedish leagues where therr is one race day, not the mish mashed uneven el fixtures.

Its basically a quid a week. If you're the target market for a game like this surely that's not unreasonable? But you could be right, I seem to recall a gp scorecard app and people were whingeing because the free download only worked for the first meeting and would then cost to work for the rest of the series. And maybe a chunk of your target market is in poland and therefore 5 quid is too steep?

tbh, and don't take this as a dig Phil,I don't think the article adds anything that's not already in the public domain. Emil predictably denies it is anything to do with the Onesport situation, and says it is due to financial issues from the 250kE owed to him from last year, preventing him from being able to be fully committed to the GPs. It doesn't explain why he is happy to ride in SEC but not GPs, when the money I understand is no better. seems the people who as far as I know have kept their financial commitments, namely BSI and his sponsors Red Bull, are being disadvantaged because of his Polish club not having paid him. I can understand other factors such as injury and the death of his father genuinely dampening his enthusiasm. Hope he changes his mind, or a cynic would suggest his Torun bosses change theirs(?), and he is back in the GPs next year. My favourite current rider, don't think there is a speedway fan who wouldn't love to see him battling the likes of Ward and Tai for the title next year

I think for the world title, that format is a no go, wouldn't be as true a representation of best rider over the whole year as the current one, would mean countries would get to host a GP only every few years, and having that many riders would perhaps be prohibitively expensive (and would people come to watch all the meetings, or just the final)? I quite like the concept, perhaps in the context of Elite Riders champs or European Champs, but just not sure it is practical.

i'm not sure the different heat formats is a major obstacle. Flying Shale is an excellent simulation game which has a huge number of formats available, and the ability to add and edit these. I agree the sport doesn't really lend itself to graphical representation as there isn't a great deal of variety, so as Matt suggests a management style game is the way to go. I know nothing about programming, but taking the meeting "engine" of something like flying shale and adding the managerial type functions (buying/selling riders, finances, rider development etc.) would seem a sensible way to do it - yiu'd imagine the developers of that game must make very little revenue from it these days, so would perhaps be willing to allow such usage in exchange for a small, share of profits (if any). Matt's proposed business model would seem to be the only way to make any sort of money from it, but if the game was good maybe you'd be able to charge a fiver a month, which with even a 1000 users is a tidy sum if you were able to do the programming etc. yourself.

perhaps. in principle I'd be in favour of reducing the number of wild card places, BUT typically these result in a stronger caliber of rider being selected than get through the qualifiers. Ideally you'd have some sort of qualifying series, but don't see how that would be financially viable, so in the absence of that I think you want at least three wild card sports, to cover top riders who miss out through injury, hot up and coming talents, or riders like Emil who miss a series for political/financial/personal reasons.perhaps go back to regional based qualifiers, overseas, noric and continental finals, to make the qualifying meetings a little more meaningful with a ttile at stake? Perhaps riders in the GPs should be excluded from the qualifiers, or bring back the old GP Challenge.. regardless, as you say, I think it's only tweaking, if anything, that's needed. but your title was "GP format", nothing about venues? If your intent was to show the venues, why not title it "GP venues and presentation"?

A bit late, but anyway... I thought it was a brilliant final. Some excellent racing, and the meeting decided by a pass on the final bend of the final heat - what more could you want (other than a british medal). Amazed at the negative reactions on here. thought it was a great advert for speedway, except of course for the poor attendance. The joker - have to say, I'm a little torn. In principal I don't like it, but certainly the tac subs and jokers transformed what looked like being a straight forward home victory into a superb contest - exactly what the rule is designed to do. Disapointing, though predictable, that the thread devolved into the usual battle between dumb and dumber, once too thick to see that the British effort this year was significantly better than last year, the other unable to avoid turning everything into a dig at Poole. Surpriing the number of people that thought the SWC final was the place to throw untried young British riders. I was amongst those that would have had more youngsters in the squad, and would probably have started Lambert in the home track meeting at Lynn, but happy to admit I had that wrong, without Stead's two first up wins the Brits would have struggled to qualify top. Either way, you p[ick your strongest team for a final, it could be a few more year's before we get the chance again. In reality, Poland, Denmark and Australia are some way ahead of the rest (the first two could name two or three world class sides), although a full strength Russian side would be competitive. England and Sweden are relatively evenly matched, and the other countries some way back (though of course Hancock's ability to score 21 on his own mean the USA will always have a slim chance of pulling off an upset). Would love to see test matches introduced, on home soil a series against Sweden would be closely fought, and even an "Ashes" series against UK based Aussies would be useful in rider development. Of course, overseas internationals, even if against weaker nations (e.g. Czechs, Latvians etc) would be useful to give the Brits overseas experience.

had a little bit of spare time on my hands, so similar to last year I've done some statistical analysis to see who the top riders in the world are in 2014 so far. Rankings take into account league matches (Swedish and Polish top and second divisions plus British and Danish top flight), GPs, SWC, SEC, GP qualifiers and the Eurosport best pairs, each event assigned different weighitngs. Top 20 riders in the world for meetings up to start of this week: 1 Greg Hancock 12.47 2 Tai Woffinden 12.43 3 Niels-Kristian Iversen 10.97 4 Darcy Ward 10.72 5 Nicki Pedersen 10.62 6 Chris Holder 10.13 7 Piotr Protasiewicz 10.12 8 Jaroslaw Hampel 10.07 9 Peter Kildemand 9.59 10 Emil Sajfutdinov 9.46 11 Martin Vaculik 9.34 12 Jason Doyle 9.34 13 Thomas Hjelm Jonasson 9.28 14 Krzysztof Kasprzak 9.26 15 Matej Zagar 9.18 16 Janusz Kolodziej 9.15 17 Hans Andersen 8.67 1 8 Aleksandr Loktayev 8.50 19 Bartosz Zmarzlik 8.46 20 Maciej Janowsk 8.31 No major surprises. Scott Nicholls the second best Brit in 40th place.

the current format is pretty much perfect imho, no need to meddle with it.

Greg Hancock Tai woffinden Nki Hampel Bonus: harris to beat lebedevs

Can't believe any rider would cheat, what would be the point when they are riding purely for our entertainment?

It was the overseas final, and the ironic thing is it didnt even result in any extra Americans progressi g to the next round. This is the most famous example,perhaps because it was so blatant, but was far from the only example of this happening.

Not going to happen, though I would like to see a competition along those lines run alongside the gps. If you had it, id look at doing it slong the lines of the old world chsmps. National chsmps to determine qualifiers to essentially four "quarter-finals" (overseas final, nordic final, two continental semi final s). Then inter continental and continental finals to determine world finalists (or whatever u call it). Personally thats the format id like the European champs to take, would complement the gp series rather thsn being a rival to it.

Tbf, toss of a coin has been in the rules for football world cups as a method of determining who progresses from group stages in event of tie on points and goal difference. The 68 euro football champs had a coin toss to determine the winner of the semi final.

I was wrong. Rosco was right! Stead MOM for me with those critical wins in his first two heats. Congrats team gb.

So if we look at the meeting gb were eliminated in last year.An aussie team of ward doyle woodward and Batchelor - are you saying that the aussie team yesterday was weaker? Usa - three rider s same as yesterday. Latvia - admittedly stronger than italy Now team gb last year finished last against those opponents, yesterday tbey finished top. As for tai - I think most would agree he was riding better last year than this year. Fwiw, a lot of small things went gbs way yesterday, but you're just making yourself look more foolish than usual by refusing to acknowledge that yesterday represented a huge improvement on last year.

And tbh I will often go on YouTube or pull out dvds of old world finals, will hardlt ever watch old gps. Forgot to say, thanks to r@r for posting these links.

There will always be riders in a world championship not good enough to be world champion, especially under a gp format where one brilliant night isnt enough. But you csnt compare those riders - jonsson has a runners up medal to his name! - with the likes of starostin, kroeze, verner, dryml etc. The list you have given is closer to the likes of Anderson, morton, shirra, cross riders good enough to make world final s but never getting close to winning it. the "but" for me would be that no gp will match the atmosphere of the 81 wembley final or sheer drama of 82 - even the title deciding holder v pedersen clash in 12 wont get 10% of the ongoing debste the csrter/penhall clash still does. Wouldn't it have been better though - fairer at least - if the questuon of whether penhall or carter was best in the world in 82 had been settled over a season, snd not just one race?

Wembley 81 - the last truly great world final (though the racing was better at odsal in 90) LA - memorable only for the penhall/carter clash (thoughwhat a clash!) Amsterdam - the first step towards gps. What these meetings do show is how much better gp racing frequently is, and how gps dont have a third of the field filled of no hopers. People complain about harris, but look how far off the pace starostin fir exsmple is. Loved the world finals, but dont know how people could look at the 82 or 87 finals and think that is better than what we have now.