waiheke1

Agree. Most would have considered Hans the best rider in the world both years. Eric scraped into the final in 84 from memory?whereas but for a puncture or ef s Moran would likely have done the overseas/ic final double both years. From memory when I produced statistical ranking lusts for 84/85 Shaun finished 2nd ahead of Eric if you ignored the world final.

Well at the start of the year Doyle as reigning champ, Zmarzlik, Lindgren who started the season on fire, Emil.

Nope. He may have been 3rd favourite pre final along with Ermolenko, but no-one predicted anything other than Eric or Hans. And in the final Knudsen came 3rd in his first ride, so at no point was he a joint favourite - it was Eric clear favourite after 4 heats, Hans ckear favourite from heat 8 onwards.

S Moran won the inter continental final both years, in 85 also the overseas final at Odsal beating Carter twice. I'm not 100% certain on bookmakers odds, but certainly the "experts" in the Star tipped Moran.

84&85 S Moran I believe was favourite

84&85 S Moran was the real threat. Sanders was fancied by some in 84. Ermolenko would have been probably 12tg favourite of the 16 finalists in 85! 86 neither Tatum or Nielsen were expected to trouble the Danes 87/88 Maybe Sam and Jan O. At a push Tatum in 88 Not convinced by any of those for 89. And over a full gp season? Moran in 84/85, Carter 85, Jan o 88. That's it.

In a GP format from 84-89 they would have battled s Moran some years, Carter in 85, Jan o in 88. Reality is their genuine competition of the same era left the sport prematurely. Some other decent riders, but you would struggle to convince me that Knudsen, Tatum, Wigg,Ermolenko are significantly tougher than Safuydinov, Doyle, Zmarzlik, Janowski.

Was the sport stronger in depth in the 80s? There were only 3 countries with any depth - England USA and Denmark. Sweden NZ and Australia had a couple of international/world class riders each at various points in the decade. Finland Germany and at a push Poland could argue the same. Poland's depth today is arguably better than England's was. Australia, Sweden, Denmark, England and Russia all have a nucleus of quality riders. Then the likes of USA Latvia Czech Slovakia and Slovenia all have one quality rider each.

I think there are some on here that would process things were much better back in the day when the earth was flat...

Would add at least we are now in realms of sensiblesness. PC x2 And Lee I can at leastcsee arguments as to why they might be considered better than Woffy. Carter I'm struggling tbh, and this is as one of the biggest admirers of his ability. Only in 82 could u argue he was the best rider in the world. Tai has been 3 times. I'm certainly not convinced the standard of competition in 82 was higher than today. And Carter at his peak had arguably the quickest bikes in the world, which seems to contradict esrlier arguments about Woffy mechanical advantage...

When it seemed arguments could not get any weaker... Number of goals conceded by a goalkeeper have never been considered the true barometer of a goalkeepers ability. The world individual championship of speedway is typically considered the key indicator of a rider's ability, especially in the gp era. Are u really trying yo compare the two?

Ok I'll bite. With all the watching on tv you do. What is it that makes you think the Gordeevs were better than Safuydinov and Laguta? Stancl better than Zagar? P Crump better than Doyle? Plech Jancarz,Cieslak and Rembas better than Zmarzlik, Janowski, Dudek and Pawliki. Autrey better than Hancock. Simmons, Louis Mort Wyer vs Lindgren, Holder,Vaculik Cook i csn see arguments. And Ican concede Mauger vs Nicki P. But I'm hoping you can enlighten me on the others.

Jessup qualified from British final every year 77-82. Lee qualified every year from 77-83 except for 82. PC qualified every year from 73-80, except for the infamous 78.

Fair to say Woffy is knocking on the door of top 10 of all time though (imo). Of the three times world champs id have him behind Crump and probably Olsen, but ahead of Gundersen and Nicki P. Ahead of all double world champs with possible exceptions of Young and Moore. And maybe ahead of Hancock.

Edit: my post was in response to Tyler. Didnt want to quote the lengthy post in full

Agree with most of that, though if there were only 8 teams in the BL in the 70s with the same pool of riders it would actually have made a number of posters on here think it was weaker! I disagree on the last sentence though - people have been saying that for years but speedway is still here. Don't disagree on the need for a major overhaul though.

That's just because you're argumentative, always right and won't let anyone else have an onion. FACT

I would suggest that if you don't enjoy watching Woffy, Zmarzlik,Emil or the likes of Bewley and Lambert, then the issue isnt that the riders are not as exvitimg as they used to be but that you no longer enjoy the sport. Which then baffles me as to why you would spend time on a speedway forum. My favourite riders will always be Ross, Mort, PC, Smudger and the Moran brothers. But it doesn't stop me from enjoying the riders of today. I'm sure Bewitcher would argue that Ermolenko is the most exciting rider of all time. But he's not going to argue that that makes modern riders dull, or that Ronnie Correy was better than Greg Hancock

KK was rubbish in the SEC. Hampel is imo the best rider not in the 18 or 19 gp series. If he wasn't polish he would have had a great chance of a wild card last for this year and next year.

Noting that riders like Zagar and Milik have inflated averages due to riding only in the semis

Tbh i thought it read like an essay someone had churned out for a school project. I sincerely hope noone paid for it. It reccomended a marketing strategy imo at least a decade out of date, albeit that representing an improvement on status quo. And contradicted itself by stressing the importance of improving skills by racing atvthe highest level, then recommending further dilution of the top flight strength. How that would help the likes of Lambert and Bewley I have no idea. And the idea of removing both guest and r/r facilities in case of injuries. Going to be great for crowds when a visiting number 1 Is replaced by a NL reserve...

In what way are those events "too selective". The GPs have 10 meetings where top riders are competing agsinst each other on a variety of tracks, and are arguably the true barometer of a rider's ability atvthe very top level. Speedway is an individual sport as much as a team one, so excluding certain events makes very little sense imo. When you look back on 2018 would you really argue Woffy was not as good as Nicki or Madsen?

But why ignore performances in GPs,Son,SEC and elitseren? There are probably 8-10 riders definitely deserving a spot as they have potential to battle for top 3, then another 10-15 riders who would be competitive but at best likely to be finishing top 8.

Because it has been marketed supremely well.

You think Cook got into the GPs because he had better equipment than the Poles he was up against...? You think Woffy has quicker bikes than Zmarzlik? Whereas Nielsen, Gundersen, Penhall, Olsen, Lee,Mauger won theirs riding lawnmowers?