waiheke1

So you would have no top riders riding in Britain, meaning any Brit wanting to make it would need to find a team spot in Poland/Sweden to become an international standard rider. Imho the answer is to improve the product not weaken it. It is a potentially great product, but presentation and marketing (amongst other things) need vast improvement. Personally I think a single round home/away elite league per the Poland/Sweden model, el to have priority over pl,set race night/s, minimum 3 Brits per team (including 2 aged u23 or with less than 5 years experience at pl/el level?), decent entertainment between heats, independent governing body, market it properly.

I agree NW42. You could put out a field now of 15 riders that are what I would consider to be world class, or pretty close to it - a field of whom maybe ten would have a chance pof a podium position, the rest all good enough to make top 8: Tai, Hancock, Pedersen, Hampel, Janowski, Pawlicki, Holder, Ward, Zagar, Vaculik, Emil, G Laguta, Kildermand, NKI, Lindback and then another 15 of riders who are genuine international standard: Jonsson, Pawlicki (snr), A Laguta, Doyle, Batchelor, Harris, Nicholls, Lindgren, Kasprzak, Zmarzlik, Kolodisz, Sundstrom, Andersen, MJJ, Bjerre with another half dozen Poles(PPx2, Buzz, etc.) capable of competing at that level, quite a few more Danes (Mads, Bech etc), then up and coming riders like Milik, Lambert, Lebedevs, Morris etc who would not be out of place in that second list. The standard of British and kiwi riders is a lot lower than the 70s, the Swedes somewhat lower, Americans have one world class rider (same as 70s when they had Autrey then Penhall), but the Poles now are as strong as the Brits were then, the Aussies are stronger, the Danes much stronger, The Russians much stronger, and you have other riders from the continent like Zagar, Vaculik who are world class. For most of the 70s you had Olsen, Mauger, Collins and Michanek who would be stong favourites any year, obviously Lee came on the scene towards the end of the decade, and in any year you might have another rider who would ptoentially be capable of winning a one off final (I'm thinking Crump in 75, Simmons in 76) - but over a GP season, I think only Lee in 79 and possibly Michanek would have got close to preventing the "big three" dominating the decade.

Andersen 500 more Emil. 100 more Thanks r&r

Returning to the subject of Tai Woffinden: Has any Brit ever been riding as well as he is currently? Tai in 2013 I don't believe was top of the league averages like he is now. Loram in 2000 wasn't as dominant as Tai looks,didn't win a GP and wasn't anywhere near as strong domestically HAvelock in 93 was actually very impressive in qualifiers, not so much domestically, and certainly wasn't favourite on world final night wheras Tai would be a red hot favourite Carter in 82 dominated the BL, but didn't win any of the major world final qualifiers Lee - wasn't the worlds best in 80 when he won the title, was red hot for patches in 83 but didn't win anything of note and wasn't top in the BL averages, 79 he was possibly the world's best but not consistently at the level Tai is riding PC - in 76/77 is probably the only rider I can think of that may come close to current form Tai, in that he was outstanding across all competitions Peter Craven - some doubt (if i correctly recall debate on this) as to whether he would have won a title under a GP system, would leave others with more knowledge of that era as to whether there was any season where he performed as well as Tai has this season? If Tai picks up the crown this season, will that see him overtake the two PCs as greatest Brit of the post-war era?

the only meeting I can recall with similar a gate bias was the 2013 NZ GP, when 15/23 winners were off gate 1, had 55 points scored (including a last place of gate one for Jason Bunyan. Next highest gate 3 with 38 points) . The racing at Cardiff was much better though than at Western Springs. Going back through time, the 1985 world final had I believe 10 of the opening heats won off gate1, though the advantage faded after the interval, which iff anything exacerbated the unfairness (Sam Ermolenko was the key beneficiary, having two gate 1s before the interval). And the other extreme, at Gothenburg in 1980 I believe only 19 points were scored off gate3. Red hot pre meeting favourite Dave Jessup drew that gate twice, managing two seconds, as he finished runer up to Mike Lee. Anyway, I enjoyed the meeting, even if it was somewhat marred by the gate advantage. Superb ride by Tai in heat 19. Not sure I'd say it is the best ever meeting on a temporary track as one earlier poster claimed (I'd say Western Springs 2014 was better for one), but the racing WAS good - certainly can't understand people saying they were disapointed, there was good racing, good performances by the Brits, debut GP appearances for two young Brits, Nicki P picking up an exclusion, good refereeing, decent crowd - all in all an excellent advertisement for speedway.

I think sir h he is attempting to spread the one sport propaganda rather than swallowing it.

Starman? Though it may be that he is not a troll, and really is genuinely that thick. Not sure it's fair to label him a troll.Or do you mean kks? Or the polish guy who peddles one sport propaganda?

For a non native English speaker, you do parody exceptionally well

Ian. I agree that bullying is unacceptable. I do not believe gustix is being bullied. You didn't answer any of the five questions I asked in my post. These were clearly identified by the use of a question mark after them.

Rugby. Players play super 15 for one team and npc for another though seasons do not run concurrently. When nz had its national football championship in the summer players would have a winter team and a summer team.Edited to add some rugby players might also play club grade rugby as well

Twk. Gustix joined a thread about tai woffinden solely for the purpose of making repeated jibes about tai. Why in your opinion did he do that? He chose to deliberately misinterpret a post as a way to introduce his late wife to the topic. As you say, death of a loved one is no joking matter. So why in your opinion would gustix do this? This is gustix' modus operandi on this forum. Hence even incredibly mild mannered posters such as daveallan and norbold have expressed frustration. So ian - why do you think gustix posts in this manner? Do you think it is acceptable? Can u understand why people have had enough of the trolling?

Who is the " he" you are referring to? Tai woffinden or mason wear?

Seriously, what is your problem?

Of course with the old TAC sub rule poole would have almost certainly win, as they would have likely for an 8 point gain in heat 5 rather than the 3 point gain they got in heat six.What a ride by Lambert!

Agree. But if there are 2 poles from gpc plus magic top 8 would he get one? Would be harsh if he didn't imho

Can see a decent chance of three poles (magic pawlicki zmarzlik for example) qualifying for next year's series. Would that mean no wild card for hampel?

Possible, but I'd rate it less than 50%. Is he 20 points better than nki or Doyle? With holder coming into form would you back kildermand to outscore him in the battle for top 8? Certainly he's a decent shout, but I'd be more surprised if he made it than if he didn't Edited to add, I hope he does make top 8

Maybe Hans Andersen could return to the aces (if he can end this current run of form) as well, add in fricke would be a decent top 5 that probably comes in under the limit.

Tbf most of what you presented was opinion, supported by fact.A subtle difference, and doubt many would disagree with your opinions, but he is correct. On watt, I think everyone with an understanding of the new heat format knew he would start scoring again once he dropped to second string

Agree with all those points arson and without a doubt would be included in my top 20 of all time, though probably not my top 10. Had he won that title ahead of holder I think he would have to be ranked at least 6th, though probably still behind mauger Briggs funding t Rick and nielsen. If tai wins a second title this year would he be an almost unanimous inclusion in the top 20? He'd have to then at least be considered as the greatest ever Brit along with the two PCs (and possibly farndon by those with more knowledge of that era)

Two time world champ would seem to qualify. Though almost certainly the worst double world champ of all time (hardly a bad title to hold) and ranked by most (?) behind the likes of single world champs like price Collins Lee gollob.

Sid was saying jessup ahead of scazkiel not pedersen I think? Tbh I can see arguments for each of Collins, Lee,penhall and Hancock being ahead of pedersen (not saying I would agree, but there are arguments u could make). Gollob rode the same era, for longer, but achieved far less so hard to argue for him though, similarly I can't see how you would rate michanek above pedersen.

As part of a swap deal for tai..

Hope u had money on it! Close. Good win for the aces.and before anyone moans about double points, under the old TAC sub rule I reckon they would have won by six.

Chris Harris!?!