waiheke1

Can't believe he got another gp after his contribution to the warsaw shambles

The issue is though is that people fixate on certain red herrings( tr, guests,play offs, sky) which have nothing to do with the decline of the sport, and in fact in some cases have helped slow the decline. The number of people on here advocating a return to what worked 50 years ago, rather than what the sport actually needs which is bringing into the 2010s. Business is littered with failures where successful ventures ultimately failed due to sticking with what had worked in the past rather than changing to meet consumer demands.

Top 4 of Lambert cook Morris and Kurtz I reckon

Cmon wolves!!!

The Cradley side of 83 is an interesting example. They actually didn't start the season that well, losing the premiership to the mighty Aces, and failing to make the League cup semi. It was really only when they strengthened at reserve, by recruiting Ravn in place of Andy Reid that things clicked. From then on I can't see that they would have needed to swap anyone had play offs been in effect, they were head and shoulders above any team. Another point to note is that Jan O, an untried teenage Dane, had to start on a 6 point assessed average . And of course the following season, when Cradley's team were weakened by the 49(if I recall correctly, it may have been a mere 48!) point limit they engaged in early season average manipulation to enable them to fit Simon Cross back in to their line up. So I would suggest that mid-season changes and average fixing aren't a modern phenomenon.

My thoughts: Started rubbish, but later there were some truly brilliant races. overall, very enjoyable, and helped by Tai extending his lead and having some money on Killer to win. Kildemand got very lucky not to be excluded on two occasions. TBH I though Tai was going to be excluded as soon as Killer went down, but was amazed that Killer escaped exclusion when he cleaned out Nicki and Zagar. He's entertaining though, but far more dangerous a rider than Nicki imo. That of course made it inevitable that he would win the re-run of the final, the only thing going to stop him was that Zagar was the only finalist that I didn't have money on How many moves did we see that were very similar to Nicki Ps on Hancock from a month back without riders (apoarty from Killer) going down, and with noone feeling the need to launch themselves post race at the other rider? The gate bias was quite strange in that in only one of the first five heats did red win, and the only one of the last three red won was in a a fortuitous re-run. But in between they won almost every heat? Is it that riders are so evenly matched that a slight advantage is enough to give them the edge, or are inside gates this year really so favourable. The ref will never stop the race for unfair riding unless a rider goes doen. How many times did we see riders colliding in the run to the first corner (ala Gollowb/Pedersen in EC the other week, but as no rider went down the ref lets the race go. Tai is showing the real mental toughness of a world champ. I don't agree with GRW who stated he got lucky, The mark of a champ is to win those pressure races to make the semis, Tai did that, and while his lead is only around a dozen points surely only injury now will stop him The race for 3rd and top 8 hearing up, ith only 11 points seperating 3rd from 9th. Personally think the top8 will remain the same, would pick Puk for 3rd, could be an interetsing toss-up again as to whether MJJ or Killer will get a wildcard for next year I think Doyle has blown more points than any other rider this year, often costing himself places in the semi or final with rash moves or other mistakes. He's only 5 points off a rostrum spot, but I think he could have easily been level with Nicki on points with a little more composure at certain times. Not intended as a criticism, has been an excellent debut season. Don't understand people continually making digs at Harris, he's competitive and riders to his level, averaging around 5 a GP is about right I'd say (indicates against top class riders he will be beaten by two, but beat one).

In 1975, when he won his last European title, Mauger was no longer considered elegible to race for Great Britain in the WTC, no longer went through the British final round, so I think it's fair to say at that stage he was a kiwi and not representing GB.

I assume you are aware that Ivan mauger is a four time winner? And know where new Zealand is?

Good choices. Ideal would be pawlicki jnr lindback and kildermand to go through, but would be happy enough with zmarzlik or Harris.

I don't think mauger would have won a gp series after 74 tbh, I think Collins/Olsen would have won the next four and then Lee in 79. Mauger would have still been on the podium most seasons though

I think everyone acknowledges they were deserving world champs, and that egon was a world class rider.But that's different from saying they were the best rider in the world, I think it's quite clear neither was in their respective seasons (best on the night though).

Yet wouldn't have finished ahead of Nielsen gundersen sigalos Lee or Carter over a full season.

Without a doubt a gp series that season would have been a battle between pc and Olsen for the title

I thought you would be delighted with a series featuring mjj, the and batch? Pbd?

qI went to two as a youngster and loved them, despite the fact that they were at two of the less salubrious stadiums to host finals (norden in 83 and Bradford in 80). I also loved the earlier qualifying rounds - overseas, commonwealth and ic finals. But unquestionably the gp series is a better measure of best rider in the world Egon was a class act, but would never have got near to top 3 over a gp season. Edited to add: doesn't get much better than a 3 man run off to decide the world title, even if the rider you wanted to win (shooey) wasn't in it, and the final missing the local rider who would have been red hot favourite to win the meeting

Or if one side has used the tr, the other side gets to use it in heat 15. U get the benefit of potentially keeping the contest alive for longer, but with the leading team not significantly disadvantaged.

Far more incentive for a rider to keep trying in the GPS,whereas in a world final after two rides they may have nothing to race for. On a 1-1 basis I'd day Wembley beats cardiff, BUT you'd only get a world final in the UK every 5 years now, and its doubtful any promoter would risk holding it at Wembley (assuming even available), so you may well end up with cardiff anyway, just 20% as often. Not sure the crowd would me much bigger than the 40k mark either.

Yep at 6 down they did So u could choose gates and replace two weaker riders with your top two

Anywhere these ratings can be viewed gustix?

I think we all preferred the TAC sub rule. It's a fact it was more unfair though

Taking holder as an example, in his first three home and away meetings this season his record against second strings was 12-11 in his favour.Yet you propose Harris, who is a point better in the el than cook who averages 10 in the pl, to race against pl riders and say that would be more even? Everyone agrees improvements need to be made, but there are enough things genuinely wrong without people making things up that have no basis in fact.

Top of my rankings doesn't mean he would have won GPS. That said I think his consistency would have seen him finish top. He dropped just 1 point in three meetings qualifying for the world final, 1 point from 3 world team cup meetings , would have been on podium in world final but for puncture, rostrum in blrc, 2nd? in averages. He may not have won as many GPS as Lee, but I reckon over a season he would have been top. Lee had some purple patches but also some periods of poor form that season

Currently completing 83 but looks like Nielsen will emerge top ahead of gundersen then Lee/sigalos. Pretty tight, though not as close as penhall/Carter in my 82 rankings (penhall edgeing it by 0.02)

Yet you put up for 30 years with a rule which was inherently more unfair?

Ivan would have been fine with different start rules. Gundersen struggled more than anyone in the first season, but then averaged over 11 in the second. A true pro like Ivan would have adapted as quick as anyone