Elephantman

I'm not here to educate you but as you asked. The National Industries that were privatised were significantly under valued to encourage Joe Public to buy shares. Despite this fact the majority of the shares went to the management of these organisations and City Institution. Within a short period of time many of those shares were sold at the correct market values making millionaires of many average middle managers and making the City billions in profits. Just like the recent Post Office sale the shares were sold at a price way below the value of the company so that the government could rake some cash in to cover the failure of their economic policies. So in effect billions of pounds of our money was GIVEN away! These shares were bought by the foreign investors mentioned because even though they paid a high price for control of these companies they knew that the "regulation" of these false markets was weak and they could charge what the hell they liked as the Great British public are so gullible. All these businesses are in a monopoly market place set up to look like a "open" market. Non of these companies compete with each other in real terms as the variance in price they offer is driven by two factors 1. Costs of sales and marketing 2. How much profit they can get away with before customers switch. All other price factors are pretty much the same for the utilities. The train companies cannot effectively compete with each other for two reasons 1. Most do not run services in direct competition to each other 2. The Civil Servants (i.e. Polticians) decide the Timetables and the rail franchises bid to operate a service designed by Mandarins who are in effect playing with the biggest trains set in the world. This is what they have done which is why our power, water and train prices are the highest in the world (for any major economy). * The French, Germans and Dutch do not let Johnny Foreigner run these utilities and services in their countries. Does that clarify the situation for you. To further assist this is all relevant to Speedway because the biggest issue the sport has is getting people through the doors; bearing in mind the sport has traditionally appealed to what is euphemistically known as the "working classes" it is this group that have been most hard hit by the rip off prices for essential services and the failure of the current Governments economic polices. Costs in speedway have risen significantly; the sport is struggling to reflect those costs in the prices that are charged. Do you really want me to start on Air Fences again??

Quite right too if you can't con the people in to believing you are doing something when you're not then the title "Politician" does not apply to you. UKBA and the policies affecting them have become a tool of right wing politicians who want to show how tough they are on "Johnny Foreigners" who come here and steal our jobs. Those same politicians are the one's who sold a large chunk of our Power and Gas industries to the French and Germans; the Water industry to the Australians and Far East conglomerates and British Rail (we do hate nationalised industries) to the National Railways of France; Germany & Holland. So the Government have given away billions of pounds worth of our money making us all poorer; then give individuals a real hard time when they want to come and work here in the sport/entertainment business. The Governor of The Bank of England got his visa; no problem I'm told!

You really are an unpleasant individual.

You and The Doctor are really not with the game are you. If you are going to change something you must prove that the replacement is going to be better than that which is already there. You cannot say that air fences will be better for every track because you do not have the evidence. Whereas with the fence technology that has been in place for many years there is clear empirical evidence of its efficacy. So to spell it out for you if it ain't broke don't fix it!

Yes I am; only because you don't want me to be here though:) The maths isn't too difficult, even for a Doctor. if what we read on this thread is accurate. £20k for an air fence; as few as 120 people attending some meetings; equals one club out of business due to poor attendances and an extraordinary cost for a safety device that possibly isn't required. Hopefully a benefactor will step in and pay for the fence.

This sums up your crap argument; a better fence but forced to change............. Stupid argument; stupid rule, if a change cannot be demonstrated to improve safety then it shouldn't happen. Not in all situations.

I would have done but some nob decided they'd pm me telling me to stop. So up yours delores. I'll post what I wish when I wish in what thread I wish if the comment can be related to that thread. This thread is another club that are on the ponce for money for an air fence; the question that one should be asked is are there other alternatives types of fence that may be cheaper and not reduce safety for this track. That cannot be considered because of an arbitrary decision made by the BSPA. So to the Doctor and you Tsunami; gan stick yee heed doon the nettie!

Yes you are correct. I'm just shocked that on a forum that often lambasts the BSPA for things they haven't done (as in wrongly attributed to them) a decision they have made, based on limited science, that will lead to the closure of some tracks and at some tracks possibly increasing the risk of injury, has just been waved through by the forum on the nod! I've said my piece on it, which will undoubtedly cheer up those who wish to supress genuine debate.

Your posts have become over aggressive. You really need to sort out your issues in a less public domain.

Well done!

Only for FIM events; EL, PL & NL are not FIM events.

Yes I'm quite certain that is good enough for a lot of people.

And there is the rub ; it is only "needed" because it is imposed and it is only saving "possible" serious injury because there is no data available to demonstrate it's superiority to all other type of fences. Apologies to those on here who prefer to work on opinion rather than facts.

That argument would hold water if these things had been independently tested and a risk assessment done at every location they are to be installed at. Patently this has not happened. The more likely scenario is that there will be litigation over injuries caused where these fences have been poorly designed or installed. I always thought forums were for serious debate. yet many of you want to shut down the discussions on this serious issue. It is clear from a number of posts that injuries have been made worse by poorly installed or failing air fences. Proper research and accreditation may have prevented this. Yet you champions of rider safety don't want to ask why or what can make things better?

I have moved on. Still waiting to see some independent evidence that shows Air Fences are safer than any other type of fence at every track operating (because imposing them as a requirement says that they are). You really don't have that evidence do you? One size never fits all! I don't need your input Oldace; the only thing I have ever questioned is the lack of evidence to show that Air Fences are safer than other fences in every instance. This is not proven and for some reason a number of posters believe this is something I shouldn't question. Well tough really if I think something is amiss I'm the sort of pain in the b/side who will keep asking. Apologies if that offends.

So the chickens are coming home to roost! Do they really need a new air fence or are they been forced to buy a new air fence?

Many riders English or not would be delighted to be seen as a 6-7 point man as they are essential to any team and that average is a clear indicator that they have amounted to something in the sport.

You really are unbelievable; manufacturers webs sites full of marketing bull rubbish and your convinced. Having read all of this my points are still all valid. Why do you have such an interest in ensuring discussion about safety is suppressed? No independent verification or testing!

The very fact that people with some experience are talking about the best way to install these things sums up the problem. The manufacturers and BSPA/FIM et al should be in a position to instruct users how to safely install them. But they can't, because they don't know, due to the fact these fences have not been independently and thoroughly tested. The approach to such a key safety item is staggering and borders on negligent!

The arrogance of both your posts is quite astonishing. I don't have a problem with the concept of Air Fences whatsoever; I do have a problem that they have not been correctly tested and there appears to be a haphazard methodology for installation. You have a post from a member of the track staff highlighting just one of the issues and you totally ignore the points that are made. So you sit back with your smug complacency and lets all hope that some rider doesn't suffer worse injuries because of poor design and installation of these fences. I do apologise if taking safety seriously causes you people a problem. Speedway truly is made up of the blind leading the blind!

Oilyrag always mentions Ben Wilson; I believe you posted last year that Ben works for him (or was it his father); so assuming that is true there is no shock that at every opportunity Ben is mentioned

Great post FTM. That is why you cannot go on people's opinions you must always act on facts. If their is a known installation flaw with these fences, that mean the potential for injury is increased, then somebody can be found liable for the riders injuries. Speedway is inherently dangerous but if you know of anything that has the potential to increase the risks and you are the person responsible for safety; then you are duty bound to do whatever you can to eliminate the cause of that increased risk. I wonder if the BSPA has considered their legal responsibilities before they issued this edict? I wonder who will/is getting sued for poorly fitted Air Fences; it has to be happening somewhere?

1. They are only compulsory for FIM events not all Speedway Events 2. The BSPA have decided that all UK tracks must have them (some of these promoters may or may not have a financial interest in selling air fences) 3. All tracks are different 4. Safety is not "one size fits all" 5. At some tracks other forms of safety fence will be safer than Air Fences 6. The Air Fences have not been independently tested and (as far as I am aware) do not meet any EU (or any other) safety standards 7. There have been a number of incidents where the way air fences have been installed has led to injury to riders, that is because: 7a There has been no independent testing to verify in what circumstances the Air Fences will improve safety 7b There has been little consideration of how they should be fitted; so at some tracks they have been installed in a dangerous manner The development of Air Fences has been trial and error; undoubtedly at some tracks they have improved safety but at others they have not and have and will in future exacerbate injury. Safety is too important for the cavalier approach of trial and error. And by the way there are many different forms of mesh fence some patently safer than Air Fences. So I'll make my decision based on the independent scientific testing please...... oh sorry there isn't any!

Its the way they are unfortunately; then they wonder why the majority of promoters and riders consider the BSF to be a pain in the backside and ignore the majority of posts.

All that matters is how much they get paid which is why many race their team partners instead of racing the opposition.