Fundin5

Can anybody assist with some heat times I am missing. The meeting concerned is King's Lynn v Belle Vue 22nd August 2019. I have times for heats 5 - 15 inclusive, but cannot find heats 1 - 4. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Lets face it, the BSPA is our equivalent of the KGB. Fortunately, they do bump people off ! It's about time that heads were removed from the sand and realistic thoughts given to the sport. Changes yes, there has to be. Take the possibility of one senior league, together with the National League. Say we had 14 clubs in it, running on alternate weeks. Riding from April to September would give 26 weeks, but a 14 club scenario would require 28 weeks, no rain-offs, to complete the league only. A KO Cup competition and Play Off system, assuming they were still wanted would require more weeks. The question is, how many teams are in the BSPA thoughts? A rider would only be guaranteed 28 meetings (26 League, plus 2 KOC) and that is clearly not enough. With the cost of equipment, riders would need more than 16 meetings to justify the outlay on machinery. With one league only, doubling up would not be feasible. So where would the extra meetings come from, without doubling up? To get any current Championship club to join the Premiership, pay rates would need adjustment; we've seen in the past (1995/96) that amalgamation almost financially crippled some tracks. Therefore, would the riders give it a go for less money? Possibly they would, but only if they had more meetings guaranteed to earn their living. I just wish the BSPA would do the honourable thing and consult with the people who matter most to them - the fans. Without them, they're knackered. However, as we know from many years experience, it will be highly unlikely they would. They would be very foolish and, perhaps they are, to ignore our wishes, whether in part, or full.

Belle Vue was very much the same in the 60's Cityrebel. Weekly supporters' meeting throughout the year. If I remember rightly, we had a Ten Pin Bowling team that used the nearby Granada Bowl as its base. Didn't John Berry take on a role like this in the mid 80's, only to find much opposition to it. JB was a great promoter, but the then promoters did not want someone sticking their noses into their business. As I recall, he quite the post. Would imagine the response would be similar to any figurehead poking his nose in where its not wanted by the current lot too. We've been looked down on for too long, expected to bow to the party line and be ever so grateful for another season of cock up's coming from their lousy decision making. Too often we hear these immortal words " Having had a good AGM, we are all in agreement with the decisions taken to take the sport forward." Its major surgery that's needed now, not sticking plasters. Although I doubt it would ever happen, the BSPA should canvas we, the supporters, as to what WE would like to see. The methods, Facebook, Twitter etc and the weekly mouthpiece, the Speedway Star, are there for the use of. It would be an interesting exercise.

Appreciate the reply Phil.

Should be quite an interesting article to read. I'll be reading it at 40,000 feet on my way to Australia, no doubt reliving everything that went on in 2016. Although I am always eager to hear someone's opinion, it will be, I assume, only Gordon's side of the story again. What we really need for a balanced argument is to hear the Manchester Council's stance and somehow, I don't think that will happen. Well, for the time being at least. What we are not privy to is anything that is ongoing (between the parties concerned) in relation to the happenings at The NSS in 2016. Perhaps in time we will learn what really happened. However, I fear we may never get the full story. Still something to look forward to and I don't think it will be the last time it raises its head again.

Wilkie should be welcomed with opened arms. I would hope that Alan is allowed in for nowt, its the least they could do. As a rider, he gave his all for the club and paid a heavy price for it in June 1978. When I have seen him at the NSS, his wheelchair was on the raised concrete terrace outside the Peter Craven Suite near where meetings are videoed.

Apologies, I hadn't realised James was now without any club. Again, no intention to ignore who has gone in the past. I think the big lesson here is for the "rulers/dictators" to take stock and realise here and NOW, that British speedway is on a downward spiral. If they are not careful, it will disappear up the proverbial orifice!!

With the sad news that Coventry will not run for 2017, (gutted for the fans), I suppose Mark Lemon's thoughts could turn to bringing Coventry riders into the team permutations; especially the English riders, who should come first. The Coventry situation may well have been known for some time and given Lemo food for thought with who he opts for. We can only wait and see how things pan out over the next week or so.

Feel gutted for the Bees followers; rather like having the carpet pulled from underneath you!! No sooner does one team (my lot, Belle Vue,) get sorted, another hits the rocks. I've felt for a while that the problem of where they would race would still raise its head again and so it has. Looking at the state of Brandon, it was hard to visualise anything taking place in the near future; such was the damage to important items; ie, the floodlight pylons, as well as various other items. I'm sure some riders will slot in teams as the season rolls on, but it will be of scant consolation for those who have only one team, having had two until now. Speedway is damned expensive to participate in, certainly not a hobby. The outlay they will have gone to for the season requires two teams to make it pay, I sincerely hope that they can relocate ASAP. Brandon was a showpiece stadium under the Ochiltree's, everything had to be in place and was run with military precision. I really hope that it isn't, but I fear this may well be the end for Brandon, if it is, what a sad way for a once proud club to enter the history books of closed tracks.

In fairness to Belle Vue, they did do refunds of the opening meeting tickets for quite a long time. I can't say exactly when that became more of a problem getting your money back, I would hazard a guess from late August onwards. I know someone who held on to his tickets too long despite being told to get them cashed earlier. We called in on the way to the Play Off Final at Wolves. They wouldn't give cash, just a 'cheque in the post'. Needless to say, he is still waiting for the x3 ticket refund. However, if you went in and requested swapping for league match tickets, that presented no problem. I ended up buying tickets off others during the season, who were season ticket holders and exchanging them for league tickets. At least they did not lose out. I actually exchanged the last one for the Play Off 2nd leg after the Lakeside semi final in late September. I suspect there are quite a few who fell foul of the false promises that they could use them for 2017 running of the Peter Craven MT meeting. A statement that was still being made in the days leading up to the gates being locked and the locks changed. Its hard to imagine they did not know that the 'grim reaper' was waiting round the corner.

Whilst I may have some issues with what went on last season, you have to give Gordon and Morton some respect for finally delivering the NSS. Although I honestly believe that what went wrong was not entirely their fault. We will probably never get the complete truth as to the goings on, however, we now have to forget the past and concentrate on the present and, more importantly, help make sure the Aces (and all other teams) never have to go through a period of uncertainty again. Starman -Your totally correct in Gordon and Morton being wrongly labelled morons. Now another thought. Buster appears to have done the best possible in ensuring all the declared starters finally come to the 2017 starting tapes. However, as much as I admire his efforts over the closed season, I still firmly believe, as I have done for the past 30 years, that speedway needs someone at the top who has not got any vested interest in the sport. Whether the promoters would accept an arrangement like this is doubtful in my eyes. John Berry tried in the mid 80's and was out within a very short period of time. OK, JB had the ability to rattle cages, but he was a very astute promoter. Nobody, me included, likes to be told what to do in certain circumstances, but sometimes you have to bite the bullet, even if you don't like it. Mike Parker appeared on the scene in 1959 and shook up the establishment (National League). The outcome in 1965 gave speedway stability, even though some promoters had reservations and it prospered. For the good of speedway, they bit the bullet and worked together. Understandably, a promoter, quite rightly, who puts his money in will not like an outside interference, but even though they probably know what is wrong, they don't go the whole hog to sort it out. Instead they tinker with small issues and incur the wrath of us; the supporters. What do you think Starman

Apologies Star Lady, it appears that I clicked the wrong button. No offence intended, it should have been the Like This button.

I think that is exactly the reason why the averages have been adjusted over the close season. It represents how close the top two leagues are now. I may well be wrong, but I really fancy a merger could be on the cards for 2018.

Wouldn't be a bad start would it. He is still the acceptable face of Belle Vue. If he was, I would imagine it would be as a figurehead of the club as he was in 1988 when we moved to Kirky Lane. Somehow, I don't think it will be too long before all is revealed.

Great news that the Aces will come to the tapes for 2017. Having watched them for 53 seasons, it has been a worrying time as to whether they would survive last seasons carnage. The next good news we need is that Coventry sort their problems out too. What we tend to forget is that in Belle Vue and Coventry, we have the two longest running clubs currently. Had neither survived, I would have really feared for speedways future in the UK. We've got part one of the jigsaw in place, now, lets hope that part two falls into place soon.

Dead right Arnie and it was only the return of West Ham that saved the National League. That season, the Belle Vue fixture list was littered with endless challenges to pad the season out. I feel more confident about Belle Vue than I do of Coventry. Saying that, speedway cannot afford to lose any track, lets hope that all the projected teams come to the tapes. Otherwise, we're (speedway) is in trouble.

Nothing is impossible. However, I can't remember the last time Cook ventured north to Belle Vue with his Lakeside team. It was always Neil Vatcher on his own who came with the Hammers.

I'm sure the BSPA are doing their best to arrest the situation as they would not want to be running the show themselves, yet realising for the good of the SGB Premiership, it needs a competitive team assembled. A facility like Belle Vue cannot be lost to the sport. The biggest hurdle is obviously the weekly rent payment. I think the best solution would be going back to what we did at the Dog Hole, open the turnstiles, pay a rent, pay the riders (hopefully!), get the other costs that come with running a meeting out of the way and clear off home. As for the usage of the facility we HAD, it would be better for the City Council to appoint a Stadium Commercial Manager themselves. He in turn would maximise what happens with the Artificial Centre Green, together with drumming up the use of the stadium for Conferences, functions etc. Funnily enough, I suspect that is exactly what messr's Gordon and Morton would have been expected to do. Sadly, I don't think they did to any great extent, which is where the extra income would have been of great assistance to the club. However, that is water under the bridge now, whats done is done and we must collectively to support the club and whoever the new promoter(s) are. Speedway itself I feel is at the crossroads and it must do things correctly. It cannot afford to lose tracks. We cannot possibly compete with Poland and Sweden in money terms. They both seem to be backed by heavy sponsorship, wheras we are not and must live within our means. What would be interesting is should either of those two hit the rocks big time, would the riders who deserted be clamouring to return. My answer would be YES, you can come back, but on our terms. If we are to move forward again, it must be done slowly and within the limits. I'm eagerly awaiting to see who the new people are, I say people because it definitely will not be a one man job!

Nice thought Phil, but unless something we are not party too is going on behind the scenes, we will have to wait for a new "promotion" to be put in place. However, the longer it takes to sort the sorry mess at BV out, the harder it will become to form a side. One scenario I do not wish to see again is the type of team we had in 2007. We were cannon fodder that year. But that wouldn't be a bad side if it were to be achieved. Pity poor Swindon who have used 27% of the allotted 50 point limit with a single rider. I just get the impression that all this average alteration is moving towards a single division eventually.

Not good news regarding Lakeside from an EL point of view. Hopefully, they can find a quick solution and continue racing. I hope that this is the last, but I fear more casualties.

Its speedway in general's future that is at stake. The AGM will have to come up with some radical ideas/solutions if the corner is to be turned. How many times are we to be told the too often trotted out statement - "This year, decisions have been taken that we feel will take the sport forwards" - or words to the effect off. Speedway I feel is reaching the crossroads and its bold decisions, not cosmetic ones our great sport requires. Perhaps we may not like what could be laid out before us!! However, if they eventually manage to kick start speedway again, I for one would take it. We have 8 teams in the Elite League, of which 50%, Belle Vue, Lakeside, Leicester and Coventry, all have varying issues. The BSPA in general have to do all they can to ensure these tracks keep going. Yes, we all have our rivalry, the team we're not too keen on, but, no true speedway supporter would take any pleasure in the demise of even their most bitter rival.

Rumours are rumours; personally, I tend to ignore things until someone comes clean and explains what is or isn't going on. As its the 'Big Pow Wow' later this week, something will have to be said regarding BV. Tracks (promoters) have to register their intent to run in 2017. On the face of it, Belle Vue only have 1 director left (Chris Morton), as George Carswell is not named as one. I think George's contribution was to buy the Worrall's and Fricke, who I presume, if he's been clever, owns. There's no smoke without fire, there will always be an element of truth in any rumours; how much remains to be seen. It may not be as straight forward as Belle Vue folk would like it to be, as Manchester City Council will also be involved, having stumped up an eye watering loan initially. They are bound to be looking for assurances involving any potential takeover, as I presume they would still own the stadium until all monies from the loan have been repaid. British speedway is not in the best shape at present and the last thing needed is to lose a magnificent stadium and race track after just one year.

What a wage tab to find each week. You'd need double the crowd pay that. However, I reality, a line up as such would not happen. Nice thought for you though.

Totally agree with your comment Foamfence. Simple economics have to be taken seriously in UK speedway. For too long, we have been paying far too much to some riders. I'm not saying they don't deserve good money, they most certainly do, for the risks they take to entertain us. However, the size of crowds around the country cannot sustain silly money. Too often we here about Swedish and Polish tracks running up big debts.

What intrigues me, is where does all this money swilling around in Poland actually come from!! Each year we keep thinking when is it going to end, but its still pumped into Polish speedway at an alarming rate. When the balloon eventually bursts, the bang will be heard over here. At that point, do we welcome the riders who turned their backs on the UK back with open arms, or tell them to sling their hook; no thank you!!