The White Knight

Right - Mark Loram SHOULD have won the World Championship because under the System and Rules employed then, and now, that is the way the scoring works. My contention is that under the old 'One Off' System you had a Winner who finished FIRST ie WON the Meeting. You did not have a Winner who had a multitude of Second Places in GPs who actually won nothing apart from the Championship.. I hope that clarifies my position. I can't make it any plainer.

Crumbs. :blink: Who would want Sitera?

Are you going to answer my question from a couple of weeks ago. Are you ashamed of your Country? I would very much like to know, and so, I suspect would some others.

I was alluding to the fact that Mark Loram was World Champion without winning a Round. I feel I must state that I am a big Mark Loram Fan - I thought he was GREAT!! In the context of this discussion though, the evidence is incontrovertable.

Can't do much up here in Sunderland - but - very best of luck with your endeavours. :approve:

GREAT News. Hope they are BOTH OK. :approve: Roll on March.

The beauty of the 'One Off' World Final was that the Winner was the Winner. :approve: With the GP Rules the Winner can be the - - - LOSER. Ah well - that's Speedway.

Do you really think so. I thought you wanted the Winner to be the BEST Rider in the World. You can't be that if you are unable to WIN a Round. :blink: ............................oh!! yes you can. :shock:

I was talking 'tongue in cheek' - I would have thought that was obvious. I was just extrapolating Philip Risings comment to it's logical conclusion.

Fair enough E I Addio. :)

If that were the case - then why not just select the best Rider of the year and give him the Trophy - no need for a Meeting. We could forget the World Final/GP Series then.

I'm sorry - but I simply cannot agree with that statement. Most Supporters would like to see their own Favourite Rider win the World Final - same in the GPs. If your favourite Rider doesn't win then you don't really worry too much. Mauger himself was the MASTER of conning Riders at the Gate. A lot of Riders were beaten before the Race ever started by Ivan. I site the 1972 Run Off as an example - Ivan Mauger messed around at the Star that much that he TOTALLY out psyched Bernt Persson. When the Tapes eventually went up Persson was left for dead. As far as Sczakiel is concerned - he out thought the Master on that day and won. Had Ivan been a bit more patient and waited before attempting to pass when he did - he could have still won - he didn't and he lost. On the day Jerzy Sczakiel WAS the best Rider in the World.

Top Post E I Addio - up to the last eight words. You can't mention Ward in the same sentence as 'Briggo'. Not yet anyway. Compared to Briggo - Ward has achieved nothing yet. As sidney says 'Briggo' - LEGEND!!

Agreed. :approve:

Have I ever said I didn't? You are right. With hindsight - in Speedway, things were very much better in those days (60's and 70's in my memory). THAT is my opinion and I am entitled to it. There are so many things that are wrong with Speedway these days, it is little surprise to me that crowds are drifting away from the Sport. I have argued my point over most of them at some point or another on this Forum and will continue to do so. I realise that to some I am a Dinosaur - but - I am truly greatful that I was around to see Speedway in the GOOD days.

No, not really - two totally different Competitions. I always thought that the idea of a League was to WIN it over a Season. The 'Play Offs' add nothing to the Sport as a Sport - they just make money for the Promoters. I have nothing against Promoters earning money - but - I feel that they should do it in a way that does not bastardise the idea of the League Championship. The clue is in the name - League Championship. As for the 'One Off' World Final, you are right, I do champion it over the GP System because of it's unpredictability - that has nothing to do with the League though. You are entitled to have a different view on each Competition because differing Rules apply.

Sorry, I don't think I ever said that the One Off World Final was unfair - I actually believed it WAS fair until oldace put his contribution to the debate. Even now - I still prefer that System. It does, however appear that the 'old' System was not as Fair as I believed.

How about: Russ Dent, Graeme Smith, Geoff Maloney, Hughie Saunders, Alan Knapkin, Dave Baugh, Dai Evans, Tony Childs, Reg Wilson, John Goodall, Alistair Brady, Maury Robinson and Dave Durham. Don't know how practical it would be for any of these - but - I would enjoy reading about all of them.

:sad:

I am feeling a bit disillusioned at the moment. Can I ask oldace - was Sczakiel selected/seeded direct to the Final?

Thank you for pointing this out to me oldace - I did not know that. IF you are right about this - then Jerzy Sczakiel was undeservedly in the Final. The fact that, if as you say, he was allocated a place then, in no way invalidates my arguments about Qualification - if anything it re-enforces it. Selection is no way to get to a World Final/ Grand Prix Series. In BOTH cases - IT IS WRONG.

Sczakiel QUALIFIED Woofinden didn't - GAME SET AND MATCH to me - I think. Oh - and Sczakiel was a worthy Champion ON THAT DAY!!!

Play Offs are wrong - everybody knows my views by now BWitcher - THATS why I have been quiet. I have NOT changed my views on that either. They are unfair. :) I see no contradiction - Woofinden should NOT be in the GP end of, neither should MJJ (as I stated - I only used him as an example) in my book as neither qualified - but that is the way Speedway is these days. No the wonder Crowds are falling - Speedway is pushing credibility beyond belief. People ask WHY is Speedway failing? - well ridiculous Rules like selecting for the GP series on grounds of Nationality and not Qualification, Play Offs, Double Points, Jokers etc. DO NOT HELP as far as credibility goes. People, in general, are NOT mugs. They know when they are being ripped off. Some of us, like me at the moment, are prepared to put up with all the chicanary that goes on because we love to watch four Riders belting around a Track. The problem is a tremendous amount of people are put off the Sport because of the aforementioned stupid Rules. Granted in these times of austerity 'Cuts' the Sport is also feeling the backlash of the Financial times we are living through, that too will undoubtedly have a effect. This alone is bad enough without discouraging folk by contriving Results.

I hope you are right HT. Plymouth deserve a decent Team. :approve:

EXACTLY - as I stated in an earlier Post on this Thread (see above). As Rob has pointed out Jerzy Sczakiel had some very good Results at International level - and before the usual suspects jump in - he had some very poor performances too. To me, though, that was very much part of Speedway. No way was Sczakiel a better Rider than Mauger - but - on that particular night - he triumphed. A win for the underdog a bit like Wimbledon beating Liverpool - the very unexpectedness of it was part of the delight. THAT surely is what Sport should be about - unless you want the 'same old, same old' as we get at present.