The White Knight

I remember 'Jolly' Jack Bywater very well when he rode for Boston at Sunderland. As I remember he was exciting to watch. R.I.P. + Jack.

Mine is a Bunnahabhain please. I did give my views, which were requested as I saw it.

No. I just tried to be honest.

I have thought a quite bit about your Post whka1. To answer your question as truthfully as I can, this is a free/open Forum and is here for anyone to express their views on any subject under the sun. It is here for the pleasure of it's Members and those who look at it as Guests. Now I know that people will not agree with each other and that arguments/discussions will develop - again that is what the Forum is for. Reasoned argument and discussion - not bullying Posters unmercifully no matter how stupid or inappropriate you consider their Post. I have been guilty of inappropriate Posts on occasion and have tried to apologise for them. Basically, bullying is unnecessary and I will continue to state that as long as I am on this Forum. I am not a 'do gooder' (anything but) I do though, believe in 'Fair Play'. To say someone is Posting rubbish is one thing as long as you can justify your comment with a counter argument. To call people names and to insult them is rather different and is wrong. I know I am asking for trouble with this Post, I am under no illusions about that. I have tried to answer your question seriously and honestly whka1. I know that not many will agree with me - but - I await the Flak.

Russ Dent.

If it draws people's attention to some of the nastiness that goes on here then I have served my purpose. Most of the comments are gratuitous and unpleasant. I hope you believe me when I say that I would make the same comments if it were you who were on the receiving end. It just isn't necessary. I don't know gustix - but he is attempting to fight back against some pretty rotten Posts. As I say - you have my word that I would attempt to support anyone on here who I perceive as being bullied - I have done so over other people too. I do find it ironic though, that you, who are capable of causing plenty of argument yourself on this Forum is actually pillorying me for the self same thing.

Have you? Goodnight.

Only because I am appalled at what has been Posted. By the way - had you only Posted that this Thread should get back to Woofinden - you would have got a 'Like' from me - but your snide comments were deliberately put there to elicit a response. Well - you got one. As it happens - I agree with you. We should get back to the original Thread - this diversion from Topic Subject has been very distressing to read.

As a widower myself I could see nothing funny in that whatsoever. I only hope that if you are married that when your wife passes away that nobody tries to treat that as a joke. Death isn't funny and I know that I will be in trouble for this from your acolytes but I think that a bit more understanding is called for. I miss my wife every day and I reckon that gustix will be no different to me. A low and unnecessary blow is what I would say about that so called Joke.

Disgusting. In the circumstances you should be ashamed of yourself. There is no excuse for that.

We'll see. I await the outcome of this Meeting regarding the Track with interest............ ......and a little trepidation. That said, I do sincerely hope that it is a great weekend for all those attending.

That puzzled me too. :unsure:

Not a very well reasoned Post iris123. :nono:

I would. No Secession - No War would be a better way of putting it. As I have already said, initially Lincoln was happy for Slavery to be left alone in the Southern Slave States. It wasn't until after Antietam (1862) that he felt able to enact his Emancipation Act in 1863. Antietam, as you say was a very narrow victory but enough of a one to allow Lincoln to to bring forward his Act. That changed the complexion of the War completely. Not only did it ensure that the North was seen to be making a Crusade against Slavery, it also ensured that European Countries including Britain would/could not recognize the Confederacy. From then on - the Confederacy was doomed.

Thanks for that Ray. You made me realise that I had missed the 'E' from Shelby Foote's name. Bloody typos. :mad:

Precisely. "Immediate cause of Secession". But the War itself was caused by that Secession, not Slavery. Slavery may have been behind the argument, as you say, I still maintain though, that the War started because of the Southern States seceding from the Union - not because of Slavery. The Histories that I have read are all consistent in this - even Shelby Foote's excellent Three Volume Civil War History written from a Southern point of view. In case you think I am being blinkered here - I have also read Bruce Catton's Three Volume History too - that is written from the Northern point of view.

We had agreed. But the main issue of the War in 1861 was the Right to secede from the Union. I'll put it another way, had the South decided to stay in the Union there would have been no Civil War. Initially Lincoln wanted to Ban the spread of slavery. In those Southern States who already had it, he was prepared to allow slavery to continue. Ergo, as I said the Right to Secession was the initial cause of the War.

NO!! I will put this as simply as I can. The Confederates fought for the RIGHT of their States to secede from the Union - that is what I meant by Freedom. That is initially what the War was about. It took Lincoln's Emancipation Act to turn the Civil War in to an ante Slavery Crusade. I agree that there will be very few, if any, Black people who will have any respect for the Battle Flag but you never know. From a Historical perspective, though, that Battle Flag has as much American blood on it as any Union Flag. It is due respect.

You are talking nonsense. The Battle Flag itself is an emblem, it is representing a people who fought for the their Freedom, as they saw it, 150 years ago. An awful lot of people died for that Flag and it deserves respect for that alone whichever side of the Divide you are on, Black or White. What it has come to mean today is the problem. I agree that it should be banned, not because of the Flag itself but what that Flag has come to represent. Much as Truro Robin likes to scoff at the idea - you are right, and no amount of scoffing will change that. That doesn't make him wrong. (See above).

Ooops!!!! I will Edit. No offense meant. Edited: John Cheers.

What - about the apples? :D ................... or perhaps he likes Cider. For those of a Frog persuasion - Cidre. :rofl:

Very true - but it was not the main cause of the War. As regards the Battle Flag - I view it as just that. I have said before, a lot of people fought and died under that Flag and it should be honoured as such. The fact that White Supremacists have taken it as there own does in no way devalue what the Battle Flag means to some folk in the South. I have already stated that the flying of the Flag from Public Buildings should be banned - it is a shame but the association with Racism is etched in some people's mind these days.

In an orchard I presume. Gainful employment though - he should be applauded.

You've had a lucky escape. Believe me - I know.............................................................

They were fighting for the right to secede from the United States. For Example: States Rights. Slavery only became a major reason after Lincoln's Emancipation Bill in 1863 a whole two years after the Civil War commenced. It was seen as a watershed time in the War. Lincoln needed a victory to introduce his Emancipation Act. He got that at Antietam in 1862. See below: http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured_documents/emancipation_proclamation/ Further Information below regarding the Battle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antietam_National_Battlefield