cheers fellas, I'm disappointed in myself for not thinking of John Titman, spent about 2 hours dwelling on it and never even thought of him, can remember him now though, tough rider, my dad thought he was a "dirty bugger", then again we were fairly partizan me and my old man, there were a few from Halifax we wern't keen on, until they crossed the Pennines to ride for us, Tommy Roper being the most memorable for me.
Great response gents, thanks again