nw42

Well I'm in limbo, was going to have an early night and set the alarm, now I'm wondering how I'm going to stay awake until morning because it's likely I'll oversleep if I hit the feather now.. Decisions decisions.

Maybe he didn't know you were here, I think most of us knew what he meant.

Bit harsh WK, as village idiots go he's amongst the world's elite.

It could be that one Sidney but I'm sure I remember Penhall, could be wrong. It was definitely a Sunday afternoon, fine day and some good racing. In fact I think you have the right meeting, from memory the yanks had Sigalos, King, Moran brothers, not sure when King arrived here but I'd imagine it was later than 80.

Cheers for the heads up on that Sidney, just watched it and you're right, it was a very good race, Lee was flying but PC just lined him up over a couple of laps, he had no answer to PC's trackcraft. I also recall attending the inter-league match but could no way remember any of the racing, your memory is impressive. West Gorton, we used to have some great matches at Owlerton, always loved going there. Do you remember a test match of some sort being ridden there on a Sunday in the late 70's, not sure if it was against the Americans, think it was as I'm sure I remember Penhall being there. I have some photos from that meeting somewhere.

I was born in 1960 WK, although I was taken there a few times prior to 68 that was the year I was learning to fill the programme in and paying more attention to it all. In Chris Morton's book, Until the Can Ran Out, he tells of jumping the fence on the back straight to retrieve the discarded tear-offs after the riders had left the track, well me and my dad used to sit just behind the spot where they would vault the fence, I'd have to watch them doing that and be really jealous, dad made sure I stayed put. I agree with you both, Sidney does know his stuff, I also relate to a lot of his comments. He's a Backtrack era fans dream.

You make good points Sidney, all valid, maybe you are playing devils advocate, if so you do it well.. I watched speedway regularly throughout both their careers, admittedly most of it at Hyde Rd but we travelled everywhere as well. There's no denying Lee was faster but PC had the ability and confidence to create lines others hadn't even thought possible, he could find the traction. Don't forget he was passing the world's best on a regular basis, takes some doing, more often than not Lee would be leading from the start. For me the thrill of speedway is the passing, gating is so important we know but have I ever found myself lurching forward in my chair when concentrating on the start of a deciding heat on the tv, not really, starting isn't exciting to me, it's just part of the build up to a race. However, plenty of times when watching the the likes Loram or Ward for example I can become totally submerged in their attempts to pass someone, it's mesmerising, PC made a career out of being like that, I'm sure he would have loved to be able to gate but as ER says, the English disease........ If I think back to those days and picture a race with either PC or Mike in it, you could look at what was going on around Mike, mostly behind him, and not worry about missing anything but if PC was in a race you wouldn't want to take your eyes off what he was doing, often building speed over a couple or even 3 laps and then making the most outrageous move to pass. The first time I saw Gollob doing it at his favourite Polish track similarly enthralling viewing. Funnily enough Mike Lee's long track win is among my favourite you tube clips, Lee was a very skilful rider and had the fastest machinery around for a time, his career was built on speed, he was probably England's best gater until Carter came along. I'm glad I was lucky enough to have watched the sport live when both Lee and Collins were in their prime. These days it's Ward who I look to for those moves. Keep it going Sidney, another cracking thread.

Your mention of Alan Cowland just brings to mind the mini riot at Hyde Rd when he forced Wilkie out to the fence in a last heat decider, he picked the wrong rider to do that to, Wilkie tackled him as he was returning to the pits and it all kicked off. I agree they were great days and are the ones that stick in my memory most clearly, we were at Hyde Rd every Saturday and often nipped over to Owlerton on a Thursday, loved going there as you could get right near the pits, also the level of the terracing on the pit bend gave the impression of it being a much faster track then BV, great days indeed.

Apologies Sidney, it's strange the things that stick in your mind though, Geoff Curtis - can't remember the colour of his leathers, I'd have to guess at black and very shiny but I do remember a white mudguard. Geoff Mudge - blue leathers I think. Can't picture Richard May but for some reason I always thought he was posh, god only knows why, maybe because I'd heard him called Dickie. Wilkie wore orange for most of his career. Anyway, if I hadn't gone off topic your excellent thread would have disappeared on to page 2 by now, thank me later

Last few posts serve to show what a fairly decent side Scotland could put out back in the early 70's, add to the mix Bert Harkins and the Beaton brothers and you would have a good 7man team that would hold their own in almost any match. Jimmy Mac was often a very useful guest for Belle Vue and as iris123 says, he is/was a really nice bloke. WK, you're right with the headwear connection but Ken Eyre always had the bobble on his hat, I'm sure Ken McKinlay was mostly bobble-less. Sidney, spot on re the Templetons, more like a tag team than a pair of speedway riders, weren't they uncles of the Beaton brothers?

Double post, apologies.

For anyone at a loose end this fine Sunday afternoon they have an hour long showing of this meeting. Starts @ 15.30.

I did mention him up above WK, he was a great club servant to Belle Vue, he hasn't really changed much, saw him last year at a grasstrack with PC, really nice fella. Orange leathers is one thing I remember about Ken, he always used to give the crowd a wave, he just seemed to love being part of it all. Mike Hiftle wore blue, bit darker than Nigel Boococks. Sidney, just when I think I've stopped recalling riders you throw a couple more into the mix, Martin Scarisbrick, there were high hopes for him and he seemed to be fulfilling his potential but then faded away, not sure if it was due to injury though... Not from the training school but Carl Blackbird was destined for big things but again it never quite materialised, didn't his brother have a go too. We had Dave Hemus at Hyde Rd for a year or 2, red leathers, good gater. This link is to a picture of what was near enough my favourite time of watching the Aces, http://www.flickr.com/photos/41645839@N00/2712944680/in/photostream/

Good shout Sidney, you have a great memory, much better than my own just picturing Declan Eccles in the 2nd halfs riding with grey overalls flapping about, not even sure if he had leathers, used to be head down flat out all the time. . Glen Hornby was another out of the training school, went to Middlesborough I think. Andy Smith of course has been mentioned in the thread, Daz Sumner too. Might have missed it but has Joe Screen had a mention? Really has evoked some good memories this thread, Ian Turner from Kings Lynn, great little rider, Tony Davey another diminutive flyer on his day. Arnie Haley, has to be one of the lightest riders ever, there was nothing to him. Ok I'll stop rambling.

As far as I recall yes he did, I used to attend the Saturday training schools in the winter and I'm sure I remember seeing him in the pits. I was only 7/8/9y/o but can remember a few names from that training school who went on to have decent careers even if not exactly hitting the heady heights on an individual basis, Alan Wilkinson, Ken Eyre, Taffy Owen, Eric Broadbelt, Paul Tyrer, Duncan Meridith, Geoff Pusey. There were plenty of others who benefited from those cold wet Saturdays.

Really enjoyed the thread Sidney, spent a good half hour or more drifting my way through many of the posts and the different opinions, most of the offerings are from my era, late 60's on. Not sure about my top ten any more but when considering the 2nd ten I'm surprised not to see Chris Pusey getting a mention, a shoe in for me.

Have you just made the captaincy story up then?

I thought similar when you mentioned John Louis but each to their own. Don't get me wrong,I know Louis was a good rider but there were a few so-called lesser lights I'd have been more disappointed to have missed seeing, Tony Davey for one since we're on Ipswich, loved his style. I've seen Shane Parker have some fantastic meetings, very rarely fails to give value for money, definitely a crowd-puller. Good thread by the way. Good call Sidney, Soren was my favourite rider when I first went to Hyde Rd, he looked so small on the bike that until I saw him in the pits I thought he was just a kid a bit older than me, I was about 8 at the time. Great rider and good Belle Vue man.

Or your chickens.

Thanks for posting this, thanks also to your wife for the tribute page, I've spent hours looking at the pictures on there, the ones of PC I mean, not your wife, just saying. With the sort of stuff below being posted I'm glad Peter isn't on the internet, no need for it at all. Self praise, give your head a wobble, you obviously know nothing about the man, nothing.

Agreed George, he had generated plenty of speed coming off the 2nd bend and you would have expected him to consolidate things on the next lap. Ivan was known for his cool head but perhaps because of what had gone on throughout the meeting, compounded by the ridiculous start, he had lost his composure and just went for the gap. Also, what a great first lap by Olsen in heat 18, watched it many times and I still expect the Pole to pass him as they exit the 4th bend, good race.

Well said. I've filled it in, I let the devil get the better of me and supplied my email address too, what will become of me?

Chill, it's 2013.

Can't believe you've posted that video without translating it and giving a full breakdown of Egon's career, including the junior stuff mind, why bother if you're only going to give half the story, I despair Wait til parsloes catches sight of it, he'll be livid. Apart from that thanks for posting iris.

For the purposes of clarity I'll continue with you. Fair enough, it's a good place to ask that question. Why did you post a link to the very site you have been trying to discredit on another thread here? Go on explain.