Tsunami

I agree. I don't have any doubt that the press release did not do anybody any favours. As to detail, until it was agreed and then consulted/agreed with fellow leagues at the AGM, there would have been no point in going into every detail. Therefore there would have been no detail to explain, and the discussions regarding the details now start for agreement at future meetings that are being planned. It has been a difficult end of season to start with, but it would have been totally folly of the EL, and a waste of precious time, to have touched all bases, and made all of the decisions on how to make it work, prior to proposing it it's sister leagues. Now starts the hard part of making it work, with strict rules and guidance to eliminate misinterpretation in the future. The initial rules may even have to be tinkered with as new situations are unearthed, but with decent understanding and cooperation, it can be achieved.

I can fully understand your reservations, because to me, it is not the idea that is the problem but the application of it. Rosen, in Sweden with about 4 GP riders in each meeting, has a relative similarity about it with Kerr and the current EL riders. Both the rider and the team strengths are relatively lower. Note also you are saying NL riders, when the likelyhood is half PL riders and half of the best NL riders, so they not wobblers. If they are best chosen, the riders agree with the situation,commitment and terms, and allocated fairly without intervention, then I am thinking the whole idea would be great, It will remove the resident foreign riders and their costs, and could be instrumental in bringing through their Brit replacements. Obviously, discussions are currently under way, and further meetings planned, but if there is a reasonable will for it to work, we could have some success on our hands. The situation needed out the box thinking, well we have it, and we have to make it work.

And there is the rub. Opinions and statements, ignoring what information that is in posts that could inform you and others of the real situation/explanation. There are untrue and misleading basic facts being repeated time and time again, despite others like me trying to help to correct those statements. If, as you seem to agree, that your decisions are being made that are based on incomplete information, what then does that say about the very conclusions that you arrive at. Before anybody jumps in and says "were're all entitled to our opinions", I agree, but to ignore the real facts makes the decisions and conclusions rather flawed.

Just to clarify this point. In this case I am not 'in the know' as the idea came as a bit of a surprise to me as well as others. What I have done is read, read again and enquire about the proposal, and formed an opinion based on those facts and what has been explained. Perhaps if others did likewise, this might help them to understand what is being proposed and being discussed. Whilst this is reducing the overall strength of the British League teams, one has to ask whether now might have been the time to ditch the top riders, and get the then EL a lot nearer to the stable strength of the PL, and consider a serious intention of promotion and relegation. The promoted team would of course need help in it's first year up, but without the top riders and their wages, and the introduction of fast track young Brits, that might be a possible basis for the sport for the next few years. Synikalle has stated that the fast tracking was "to lower costs", but would also get rid of poor foreign riders. Can anybody really disagree with that objective/intention.

Try reading what has been said and you will see the answer is no. And no they will not be wobbly junior riders either. I don't think anybody is trying to be condescending, but it would help if posters expressed the like/dislike on what is being said after at least reading this thread. Some obviously haven't, and already made their mind up regardless, but that's nowt new.

I don't think it makes it clear at all. It's an announcement of a proven idea, which as he says "details to follow" and then people can judge it with more knowledge.

The BSPA are the promoters of EL and PL promotions. The Chairmen of stand alone NL teams are 'affiliated' to the BSPA, usually under the direction of Peter Morrish. Just a few points to correct some wrong assumptions above. The idea may be new to the UK, but it already works well in both the Polish and Swedish leagues. We are copying something that works for leagues that are more successful than us at the moment. Riders will not be NL only, as they will be a mix of the better young riders in both the NL and PL. John Cook has already explained this in his interview in the SGP site. Riders wil be riding similar standard riders in most of their races, so they will not be riding above other riders as much as they do in say the PL. A rider may be racing above their level of ability but no more than any other rider who takes a step up in either the EL, PL, NL or the JDL's. It's how riders develop and always will be. It's already been stated that the 20 or so riders would be allocated with respect to where they are based.

I answered the query on the basis of it 'folding'. I believe the club is up for sale, but that doesn't mean that the new owner would necessarily buy all the assets.

Reverts to the BSPA who can sell him or loan him. Monies collected go to Rick Frost and Julie M.

And if they didn't shove something out straight away, you would be one of the first to moan about not informing the fans. Never been hidden it was also to help with the costs. So what alternative would you want :- Op 1 - Same again not doing their job, no idea what to do, not promoting,etc. Teams go bust mid season and "I told you so". Op 2 - Reduce the points limit to say 35 and which reduces the standard of racing. "Do they think we are fools" Op 3 - Maintain top riders and introduce some form of progression, the same as two of the biggest and successful nations are doing. Better attraction to SKY to keep them on board. "Cheap option" Very difficult to win either way isn't it. So they have copied a system popular, that works in Poland and Sweden, maintains the stars and gives youngsters a bit of a step up in addition to all the other paths available now. Moan Moan.

I have already agreed that it is also a means helping to control EL costs, whilst at the same time they have managed to maintain a decent standard of riders and racing, which the EL supporters were worried about. They could have just dropped the team points average to say 35 and then there would have been real moans.. Unfortunately the press statement is all wrong and it will not be NL riders versus EL riders. The 20 will be hand picked and the best NL, together with the emerging young PL riders, will be used to share the stage with the top riders. That does not stop riders like Kerr staying and riding their way through the PL. Every eventuality covered so whats the problem. As others have said, 5 months to go to sort things out. My only problem is that there may not be enough riders to cover once the season and the injuries start.

Well I have followed it since 1961, but i try to give things a chance, rather than being cynical about any change every year. If you don't do anything, you get criticised. If you try things new, you get criticised. If you copy what other more successful nations do, you are criticised. There's a trend here, OK. Whilst all the details on the rules are not being broadcast yet, or even made at the moment, all we have to do surely is to copy what say Poland do. If the BSPA tried to do it different, I know what the critics would say. "Why reinvent it, why not just copy the Poles as it works for them, typical BSPA". BTW, we are not just talking NL riders, that has already been clarified by John Cook in his interview on the SGP site, so it won't be wobblies, but capable riders in the midst of the better riders. Think kids at a football club going with to matches, or training with the first team, same principles. How did Richie W get on so well at Newcastle. He worshiped Robbo, and was advised how to ride and set up by the likes of both Robbo and Mark. In the case of the Darren and Sharron Boocock Sponsorship trip to OZ. Young riders who want to go, make it known and from that list those who understand the committment, and can help pay their way with flights, get invited to go. Obviously riders over a certain age, or past their best, would not get the nod. Notice the ones that have gone have been usually the best of the best that want to go. Yes, the point would be to go NL to PL then EL, but there has to be allied parallel events to help riders along the way. Bridger went from CL to EL so it can be done depending on attitude, ability and sponsorship. As you know I am heavily involved, both financially and with my time, in youth development. I regularly attend training schools with my riders that I take, and I see many others who are trying to make their way. It gives great pleasure to see the committment that folks like you don't see, seeing riders getting better every time I see them. Liam Carr, Max Clegg, Josh Bates, Danny Phillips, Luke Crang, Kyle Bickley, and Josh, making great strides and in all the cases, except Kyle, all riding for teams in either PL, NL or NDL. It is going on funnelling them into the British Youth Championships and starting to produce plenty of riders to stock British teams in the near future. Now the BSPA are trying something new to supplement all this private enterprise, we need to get behind things instead of criticising everything that they do. Agreed, but it would have been a greater crime if either of them had stayed as reserves, as their development was way above anybodies expectations, so it was scrapped mid season. Common sense decision.

Would be helpful to start on the same point. And as you say "let's see how it pans out". We aren't in 'a few years ago', and things have been happening which you obviously have not seen or heard about. The BSPA have been supporting youth development for a few years now, appointed a couple of officers to run the U21's, running a well supported multiround British Championship for 125, 250 and 500 machines around the country, and part sponsor the Darren and Sharron Boocock trip of Brits to OZ in the winter months. This new arrangement is an additional attempt, trying to imitate both Sweden and Poland in bringing through youth development. More can be done of course, but for you to say "they weren't interested in the future' is just all wrong.

Quite agree. The conference usually ends about mid afternoon/teatime, and the Press Officer knocks up an interim statement whilst the delegates drive/fly home. Obviously the actual minutes are drafted and then agreed, before being issued with the full clarification of how things will work and what was agreed. It's the detail that is important not the first headline, always has been and always will be.

Yep, already been said.

Can't agree with you there Arson. It of course does save money, but Poland and Sweden who we are copying, surely did not bring the measures in for that purpose. There has been a bit of a further explanation of how it will work, and yes there will be problems with it's implimentation however riders will not be placed way out of their immediate area. They won't be wobblers, but riders who are very capable and who are deemed to be worthy of fast tracking, to see if they can be brought on quicker. It's worth a try, but I really don't see better suggestions from the floor to improve on it. At least it can help many problems at the same time, which must be a first.

They will probably never know if they are last picked IMO. I think there will be offers to ride declined, and I think there will be a fair amount of turmoil until it is all sorted. Then of course it will all be back on, when riders get injured and need to be replaced. Sods law would suggest the spare riders will be in the South and the new vacancy will be in the North.

The riders in question will stay at reserve all season, but I don't think they will get new averages based on these equal ability races.

Not really, more of an imbalance between the perceived strength of the EL over the getting stronger PL.

Explain how either Richie Worrall or Lewis Kerr were manipulated.

..and Hoggy on the MC.

Don't forget you always need to have extra riders not in the opening teams to cover for early injured riders. One would hope that all the Brits of reasonable ability and attitude, got places first and the remainder in the teams and on the reserve injury list are foreigners.

That would take about 6 months IMO.

So true, top post on this thread. No matter what happens, it has to be affordable, which will mean less top riders and probably more competitive racing. There will still be those who complain about anything that is agreed, and that's when promotions need to do what they think is good for them and the sport. You will NEVER EVER get ALL fans to agree on everything.(specially BSF fans)

Simon can't ride our track as he just locks up on the 2nd and 4th bends and loses speed. We used him as a guest at our place about 3 to 4 years ago and he was abysmal.