norbold

One (or two I suppose!) of my best memories is seeing the two near end of season meetings at New Cross (The King of the South Cup and The Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy) in 1961 when not only did the "Big Five" take part but also Jack Young back to his very best. Sadly, on neither occasion did all six compete together - Craven and Knutson missed the KotS Cup and Fundin missed the TF Trophy - but, seeing all those greats together was incredible, especially as the winner on both occasions was Jack Young. I did see the Big Five all together in the Internationale Final at Harringay in 1961, when they took the first five places. Another great meeting, which Ove Fundin won on an absolutely neutral track that hadn't been raced on since 1954.

No.Just no!

No guest riders in those days!

Well then, he can't be counted as a home track winner then can he, which is what the whole conversation was about or did that pass you by?

From the 1972 Webster's Speedway Mirror in an article entitled,"The Sixteen Countries of Europe" by Ian MacDonald: "The Poles themselves are still Eastern Europe's top speedway country......The international days of Pawel Waloszek and Antoni Woryna seem numbered but there is still an awful lot of talent over there. Leading the way is Jerzy Szczakiel and how the Poles could have left him out of their World Cup team is one of speedway's real mysteries...." The whole article is headed by a half page photograph of Szczakiel.

There were three Wembley riders who won the World Championship. Lionel Van Praag, Tommy Price and Freddie Williams (twice).

Szczakiel also won the World Pairs Title in 1971 with Andrzej Wyglenda with maximum points against New Zealand (Mauger and Briggs) and Sweden (Michanek and Persson) amongst others.

Very sorry to hear the news about Bryan Elliott. He added the romance to speedway in my first year of watching, 1960. Even though he was only a Coventry reserve, he qualified for the World Championship Final. Sadly, something that could never be done these days. R.I.P. Bryan.

As I said, Tommy Price topped the qualifiers for the 1949 World Final. In the Championship Round (semi-finals) at Bradford he scored 14 points compared to Graham Warren's 11; at West Ham he scored 13 points to Jack Parker's 9. So no home advantage in either of those but still managed to beat them both.

Like Freddie Williams, Tommy Price often suffers in the "who was the greatest" discussions through being a Wembley rider and therefore somehow their World Championship wins (including Price's 1946 Riders' Championship win) are to some extent discounted as they were on their home track. However, it should also be remembered that Price qualified for the 1949 final in top place with the highest number of points from the Championship Round (semi finals). Tommy Price was a great rider of his era, there is no doubt about it.

Cripes! That's before even I was born! A good memory though. Tommy Croombs's son, Bobby, later rode for New Cross of course, though very rarely managed to finish four laps as he always seemed to fall off.

I was there as well. Another brilliant memory, indeed. For about a month, Split almost returned to his form of the early 1950s when he was one of the greatest riders of the age. Although still just about heat leader class following his return to racing in 1960, he was nothing like the rider he had once been. Suddenly, towards the end of the 1961 season, the old Waterman reappeared. On 28 June, in a league match against Norwich, he beat the current World Champion, Ove Fundin twice. New Cross was one of Fundin’s favourite tracks, he was track record holder at 57.0 seconds and was very rarely beaten there. Not only did Waterman beat him twice in the match on his way to a paid maximum, but he also beat him in the second half in a Gold Cup qualifying heat. The following week, Waterman won the New Cross qualifying round of the World Championship, beating the likes of Nigel Boocock, Bob Andrews and Ken McKinlay in the process. A full maximum against Coventry came next and then he top scored for the winning England team in the World Team Championship qualifying round with 13 points, For the New Cross fans, it was a real privilege to see Waterman recapture the form that had made him one of the greatest riders of all times, albeit for just a short period.

Sorry, not 1972 to 76 as I don't agree with your premise that they were the great days! But, yes, looking through old programmes is great for bringing back the memories, Sidney, As I've said on here before, my greatest memory, and one I can still recall vividly, much better than any recent matches, is the afternoon West Ham beat Wimbledon at Wimbledon in the Knock Out Cup Quarter Final replay on 14 August 1965 without Sverre Harrfeldt or Norman Hunter. The night our five point second string Malcolm Simmons suddenly became a star.14 points in the match, including the three fastest times of the night, a victory over Olle Nygren in the 2nd half and then, to top it all off, beating him in a special race with Malcolm giving 10 yards in a handicap! Oh yes, it also saw Tony Clarke's debut. It was an unbelievable meeting and the start of West Ham's total dominance for the rest of that season, remaining unbeaten, taking the League, Cup and London Cup treble.

He was never really very close to qualifying for the final. His best year was 1953 when he scored 18 points in the Championship Round, with the lowest World Final qualifier scoring 23, but there were 13 riders between Miller and Graham Warren the lowest qualifier. He did reach the Championship Round on three other occasions but wasn't really very near qualifying for the World Final.

Yes, I kept getting emails from BT saying, "As a valued customer I could get BT Sport free, click here." So when I clicked here, it said that this free service was going to cost me £49.......

I'm not sure why Tommy Miller didn't fancy his chances in the higher league, but as far as the other two go, Jack Young really had no alternative as he was World Champion. It would have been very strange for him to have stayed in the second division. Bob Leverenz moved up because Norwich were promoted. P.S. From Dick Barrie's Web Site: "TOMMY MILLER They called him "Atomic Tommy" and he came from nowhere to zoom right to the top in a year and less. I first saw him as a second-half wobbler at the end of 1949, but he was a reserve when 1950 came around, in the team proper within the first month - and had bagged a couple of maximums and the track record by June! For the next three seasons, wee Tommy was the league's brightest star, succeeding Jack Young and Ken LeBreton (both also with Scottish tracks, of course) by the end of 1951. His mastery was total, it seemed - if he dropped a point, it was big news -- but after being sold on (to Motherwell, the club of his choice) in 1954, his descent was as sudden as his coming. Never accepted by the Eagles' fans, he moved to Coventry, then Oxford - but the new tyre regulations, and failing finances within the sport, saw Tommy out of racing by 1956. Plagued by ill-health, he died in the late 'sixties, having served one year (1964) as a referee, during the "black" PL administration's year of glory."

Peter Craven won the World Title in 1955.

You don't surprise me.

Thanks for the info, BL. I believe (if I remember right) that Bob Leverenz also made a very impressive transition to the First Division, being one of only four riders - along with Young, Ronnie Moore and Alan Hunt - to record a 10+ average in 1952.

According to the 1952 Stenner's Annual, Jack Young easily topped the Div 2 averages with 11.68. Tommy Miller was second with 10.53. These are not CMA's, it is just the total number of points divided by the number of matches. Incidentally, it is interesting to note that in the 1951/2 Stenner's rankings, three of the 15 were Division 2 riders, Young, Miller and Bob Leverenz. Also that Tommy Miller made the rankings for three consecutive years as a second division rider.

That's not really very surprising given the dates of their respective careers.

Very interesting, thanks, Bob. The only thing I find slightly surprising is no Jack Young. I think it was generally agreed that Mirac was the best rider technically. It was his "hunger" to win Individual titles that probably prevented him winning more. He always said himself that he was more interested in helping Wimbledon win than winning for himself. This is somewhat borne out by BOBBATH's post above.

Not forgetting Moore 14 finals, ----2 wins, ---- 3 seconds.

He had the best record against Ove of the "Big Five", that's true. Nevertheless, I don't think he was ever dominant in the way my top five were in their day, as, indeed, the rankings show. I couldn't include Craven as I really can't see how I could leave any of the others out. As a secondary, though important, consideration, I was a regular speedway goer from 1960 onwards and my own experience of seeing the Big Five was that Craven was the fifth best (I won't say the worst!) I even had the privilege of seeing Jack Young in his comeback year (1961) at New Cross and although not the rider he had once been, he still managed to beat the Big Five in two individual meetings towards the end of the year, winning the King of the South Cup and the Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy. I saw both meetings and he was simply superb. It gave me a real insight into what he must have been like at his peak. As for Duggan, again apart from statistics, my dad and two uncles used to go to speedway just after the War and they all raved over him and they all thought he was the greatest ever. Actually one of those uncles is now 91 and still goes regularly to Lakeside and Kent. It would be interesting to ask him who his top five of that period would be....

In the period we are talking about mine would be 1. Fundin 2. Duggan 3. Young 4. Briggs 5. Moore