norbold

You didn't get the New Cross answer!!! In answer to Dave's question, I would go for either British Speedway from 1945 - 1965; The History of New Cross or the life of Tom Farndon. It would be interesting to know what reference books they would go to to compile the questions for the last two.......

Yes.

Think you might have missed the point there, TWK! Anyway, I suspect BL65 got more than I did.... I've only been on two. Phil's been on dozens! If only I could have matched him, I'd probably be the Grand Prix race director by now.

Yes, BOBBATH, I think those three are slightly a class above the rest.

Although he was past his best by the time I saw him at New Cross, Split was still a good heat leader, but there was a period of about three or four weeks when he must have been like the Split of old. He seemed to be in a different class - he beat Ove Fundin three times one night during this time - and it was like I did catch a glimpse of him at his best. Sadly, it didn't last long but it was a privilege to see him back to his best. On that form, I think he would definitely have beaten Olle Nygren, both at their best. The only thing I would say about Olle is that he probably maintained a higher standard for longer than Split. He was still a major force to be reckoned with in the late 60s.

Yes, I believe Split would beat Olle more times than he would lose to him.

Yes, that's the date given on Wikipedia. I wonder where the date we have on our list came from?

I agree. Split was good, but not quite that good. After all, he didn't win the World Championship.

So Ronnie Moore is promoted to the top 16, which probably gives us a clear winner when the meeting is held! (Mind you, the meeting had better be held soon, before Ove joins them next!)

I hate to say this, but I got 15.....

Thanks TWK, so the last we had was this: 1. Split Waterman (England) 92 years - born 27/7/23 2. Arthur Payne (Australia) 91 years - born 30/8/24 3. Dick Bradley (England) 91 years - born 28/11/24 4. Fred Brand (England) 91 years - born 3/2/25 5. Chum Taylor (Australia) 89 years - born 4/4/27 6. Eric Boothroyd (England) 89 years tomorrow - born 26/4/27 7. Derick Close (England) 88 years - born 13/5/27 8. Henry Long (South Africa) 88 years - born 26/7/27 9. Billy Bales (England) 86 years - born 6/6/29 10. Olle Nygren (Sweden) - 86 years - born 11/11/29 11. Rune Sormander (Sweden) - 86 years - born 29/11/29 12. Jack Geran (Australia) - 86 years - born 10/12/29 13. George White (England) - 84 years - born 24/5/31 14. Ian Williams (Wales) - 84 years - born 4/8/31 15. Per Tage Svensson (Sweden) - 84 years - born 16/10/31 16. Peo Soedermann (Sweden) - 83 years - born - 29/10/32 17. Ronnie Moore (New Zealand) 83 years - born 8/3/33 18. Ove Fundin (Sweden) - 82 years - born 23/5/33 19. Arthur Wright (England) - 82 years - born 14/10/33 The ages are wrong now though!

As it happens, it's Olle Nygren's 88th birthday today. Ove Fundin is 84. Incidentally, I saw them both a couple of weeks ago at the Norwich WSRA lunch. They both look as fit as the proverbial fiddles.

Ove Fundin and Barry Briggs.

Well, top 9! Mind you, I agree with your general point though.

In that case doesn't that mean that It should count as a meeting for Kenny?

So, in the case Dave stated and in your hypotheticals, can the rider be replaced by a guest or can rider replacement be employed, rather than having to use reserves. (I know the likelihood of getting a guest at that sort of notice is less than minimal, but in theory...?)

I think a non-riding no.8 is also a different issue as he is there just as a name and there is no intention for him to ride. Anyway, it is a fascinating subject for those of us into this sort of thing, and I have enjoyed reading the different opinions on it. Thank you to Dave for raising the subject, I just hope hope has managed to get something out of it!

I think your heat six example is a different thing. Clearly the race did not take place, so cannot be counted as a race; that is different to withdrawing before the race starts and the race then taking place. It is a difference between the meeting starting and a race starting that seems to me to be the crucial issue. And the meeting has to start when the riders are called to the tapes, otherwise you couldn't enforce the 2-minute rule.

Having thought a bit more about this and read the speedway regulations for 2017, which are not specific on this point as you suggested, BL, I have come to the conclusion it would have to count as taking part in the meeting and therefore the averages would have to reflect no rides, no points but a meeting nevertheless. The reason I say this is because the meeting would start once the riders are called to the tapes. If the meeting only starts once the tapes go up, then there could be no two minute rule for the first race, which is clearly wrong.

I would think the answer might hinge on whether his team could replace him with another rider rather than just reserves. I would guess not, in which case it must have to count as a meeting with 0 points. However, if the rules do allow for him to be replaced by another rider, either a promoted reserve and a new reserve brought in or a completely new rider, then it wouldn't. Or maybe by rider replacement. I would have thought there should be something in the rules to cover this situation and when the meeting actually starts.

So I was right in the first place. As I said, Realpolitik. And a real disgrace!

I should add that one remarkable fact about Lennie is that he spent four years in a Japanese prisoner-of-war camp.

I had a chat to Olle too at the dinner. He was complaining about the standard of modern speedway and the fact that the bikes are too fast and that most riders can't handle them properly, just going flat out instead of using their head. Also met my old mate Ove, who was there, as well (a bit of name dropping never hurt anyone!)

I said earlier on that I thought Holder was nailed on to get a pick due to the politics of the whole thing. However, I think that last night did for him. After such a poor GP in his own country after a mediocre season anyway it would be very difficult to justify his inclusion next year.

I went to the Norwich WSRA Eastern Region lunch today and met up with my old friend, Lennie Read, who will be 100 next January. He is still very fit and active with all his marbles. It got me thinking about who is the oldest rider still alive. We've got a list of oldest World Championship finalists, but how about all riders? Is Lennie the oldest still going?