norbold

I believe Wembley took over the Edinburgh licence and several of the riders - including the ones you mentioned - transferred. Although, you are quite right to say, Ian, that Ian Hoskins then had nothing to do with the Wembley promotion which was run by Bernard Cottrell and Trevor Redmond.

In the latest issue of the Vintage Speedway Magazine, Eric Linden has asked the same question. He says, "I'm wondering about Phil Bishop, Oliver Hart and Joe Abbott". I'll have to follow those up now!

Right......i've got about 15 years before I can attempt that record ...... if I try I'll invite you along Norman.... then perhaps you could immortalise me in a book. LOL..... It's a date. I'll be there. Just let me know when and where...

PLJ, the Lemon Drop Kid. I'll see what I can do for you.

The original question from dukes was: If we're talking about the oldest ever just to get on a bike and ride I don't think Geoff Pymar's 88 will be beaten. As for the shandy, Shazzy, what will Mrs Norbold say if she sees you trying to get me drunk!

Looks like you've come up with the winner in Alec Gilroy, Peter....

Right here goes with a few dates: Ron Johnson was born on 24 Feb 1907 and was therefore 53 when he rode for Edinburgh in 1960. Wal Morton was born in 1911 and was therefore 52 at the end of 1963, when he left Hackney. I didn't realise he rode for Sheffield in 1964, miro, are you sure about that (or anyone else)? If so that would make him 53, the same as Johnno. Jimmy Squibb was born in 1922. I'm not sure when he retired, but he would have been 53 in 1975. Pete Lansdale was born in 1912 and rode for Exeter in 1963, making him 51. Not sure if he rode later. Geoff Pymar was born in 1912 and retired in 1962. Age 50. Rob Hollingworth was born in 1955 and is therefore 49 this year. Jack Parker was born in 1908 and retired in 1954 at the age of 46. Ken McKinlay was born on 7 June 1928. I think he retired at the end of 1975 and was therefore 47 when he retired, but he may have gone on. Can anyone confirm? Although not quite as old as the others probably the best 'old un' was Aub Lawson, who retired in 1960 at the age of 44, still averaging over nine points a match in the First Division (National League). Then of course there's False dawn.......

Geoff Pymar had a ride round King's Lynn when he was about 88 I think. Not a league match either....

Well I don't think there's much doubt that Bill Thomas must have been the oldest rider riding in league speedway. But if we're talking about British leagues, that's still open. I will try and check on ages over the week end and see what I can come up with.

George Newton - now there was a rider! One of the most spectacular leg trailers ever by all accounts. Just wish I'd seen him. He was born in 1913 and retired at the end of the 1952 season so he was a mere lad of 39 on his retirement. Not a candidate for one of the oldest riders ever. He began his career at West Ham, equalling Vic Huxley's track record in his very first match. He moved on to Crystal Palace and had some outings at Eastbourne. When Crystal Palace moved to New Cross Georgie went with. His best period was between 1936 and 1938 but then he contracted tuberculosis and did not ride again until 1948 when he turned out once again for New Cross (minus a lung and several ribs). He moved on to Fleetwood then Walthamstow. In 1951 he transferred to Liverpool and he finished his career in 1952 at St Austell, taking over the role of team manager on his retirement. Before the War he was one of England's top riders, reaching all three World Finals and represented England in three Test series. He was never the same after his illness but he was still a force to be reckoned with in the second division.

Well I guess that's settled that question then!

No, it's not him. It's a different Ian H.

Out of interest...Just found this on an old thread from Ian H:

Without looking up dates at the moment (I'm at work!), I think Ron Johnson, Geoff Pymar and Wal Morton all rode for teams when in their 50s. It's an interesting question. I look forward to more responses.

Here's a start: List of Riders who are known to have ridden for Norwich with dates Atkins, Peter: 1956 Bales, Billy: 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964 Berthelsen, Keihn: 1952 Betts, Terry: 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963 Birtwell, Bill: 1937, 1938, 1939 Brand, Fred: 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956 Bravery, Ted: 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950 Challis, Charlie 1946 Chamberlain, Johnnie: 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962 Clarke, Phil: 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959 Codling, Bill: 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954 Craighead, Roy: 1953, 1954 Crane, David: 1964 Craven, Malcolm: 1937 Cresp, Ray: 1962 Davies, Johnny: 1949 Davies, Trevor: 1951 Debbage, John: 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964 Dugard, Charlie: 1937 Duke, Roy: 1946, 1947, 1948 East, Barry: 1953, 1954 Edwards, Harry: 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1962 Featherby, Clive: 1959, 1960 Featherby, Craig: 1954 Flood, Malcolm: 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956 Freeman, Jack: 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953 Fundin, Ove: 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964 Gilbert, Bill: 1952 Gooch, Jimmy: 1962, 1963 Goodchild, Paul 1937, 1938, 1939 Grosskreutz, Max: 1938 Hammond, Paddy: 1946, 1947, 1948 Hedge, Trevor: 1962, 1963, 1964 Hendriksen, Arne: 1958, 1959 Hipperson, Sid: 1946, 1947, 1948 Houghton, Don: 1946, 1947 Hunter, Alec: 1949, 1950, 1951, 1953 Hussey, Gerry: 1956, 1958 Jay, Wilf: 1937, 1938, 1939, 1946 Last, Ken: 1962 Lawson, Aub: 1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960 Lawson, Don: 1955 Levai, Sandor: 1964 Leverenz, Bob: 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952 Lish, Charlie: 1937 Littlewood, Syd: 1938, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950 Major, George: 1964 Mills, Paddy: 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952 Milwall, Jim: 1937 Moore, Chum: 1937 Moore, Peter: 1959 Moore, Ray: 1952 Morgan, Reg: 1948 Morton, Wal: 1937, 1939, 1948, 1957 Neil, Merv: 1953, 1954 Newton, Denis: 1960, 1961, 1962 Nygren, Olle: 1962, 1963, 1964 Oakley, Bob: 1954 Pawson, Fred: 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954 Peel, Alec: 1937, 1939 Pike, Harwood 1946 Powell, Ivor "Aussie": 1948 Pymar, Geoff: 1956, 1957 Read, Len: 1946, 1947 Read, Tich: 1950, 1964 Revett, Geoff: 1947, 1948 Roger, Cyril: 1953, 1954, 1955, 1959 Rogers, Fred: 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954 Smith, Alan: 1937, 1938, 1939 Spencer, Bert: 1937, 1938, 1939, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 Strutt, Derek: 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962 Sweet, Jock: 1937, 1938, 1939 Thorpe, Jack (Bluey): 1946, 1947, 1948 Trott, Reg: 1956, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964 Watling, Lionel: 1952 White, John: 1948 Wiliams, Eric: 1962 Wise, Dicky: 1937, 1938, 1939 Then, of course, there's Yarmouth and King's Lynn...

I was very sorry to hear that former Wimbledon and Belle Vue stalwart Cyril Maidment died over the week end on his 75th birthday I believe. He had been ill for some time but still a shock when it happens. My sincerest sympathies and condolences to his family.

Too right Sir Lunchy!

No bonus points. Sorry about missing out the number of rides. I remembered I should have done that just after I switched off the computer for the night!

Sure it wasn't 20 October? Scorers: Bob Kilby 17 Jan Anderson 10 Geoff Bouchard 2 Bobby McNeill 1 Soren Karlsson 1 David Ashby 0 Kevin Pope 0 Not much of a two man team then?????

The only rider I can think of who the song may have referred to is Bill Longley, one of New Cross's leading riders in 1938 and 39 before returning in 1947. No other Williams or Willies as far as I know.

There is no doubt that, for me, the best last-heat decider came on 14 August 1965. It is a match that, even after nearly 40 years, I can still vividly remember. It was the third round of the Knock-Out Cup. West Ham had been very lucky to draw at home to Wimbledon the previous Tuesday when Wimbledon's Reg Luckhurst's bike blew up in the last heat. If that hadn't have happened the Dons would have won. So, Wimbledon were favourites for the replay on their own track. But there was even worse news for West Ham supporters when we arrived at Plough Lane. Two of our heat leaders were out. Sverre Harrfeldt had been injured the night before and Norman Hunter had a long standing engagement to be at his friend's wedding. There were no guests. Tony Clarke was thrown in for his first-ever match and Dons' junior Geoff Hughes was recruited as reserve. After the first six heats, the Dons were winning 21-15. Ken McKinlay was brought in as tactical substitute with Malcolm Simmons and the Hammers fought back with a 5-1. After that there was no stopping Simmons. At that time, it must be remembered he was just a young fairly average second string with an average of round about 5 points per match. But he then went on to beat Dons' skipper, Olle Nygen twice and Reg Luckhurst once. With one heat to go the score was 45-45. The atmosphere between these two local rivals was electric. The Dons had Keith Whipp and Reg Luckhurst out, while the Hammers tracked Ken McKinlay and Malcolm Simmons. Once again it was Simmons who shot away from Luckhurst and with McKinlay taking third place, the Hammers had pulled off the impossible and won by 49 points to 47. For good measure Simmons went on to win the second half final from Olle Nygren and then, in a special race in which Simmons was handicapped 10 yards behind Nygren, he won again! From that meeting on, West Ham did not lose another official fixture all season and went on to take the treble of Cup, League and London Cup and Simmons went on to be a star. As I said, it is a meeting I shall never forget.

Yes, you're right, you're completely wrong. Ron Johnson was one of the Aussie pioneers, came to this country in 1928 with Johnnie Hoskins. Although, he was actually born in Edinburgh, his family emigrated when he was 3. So it has nothing to do with the other Ron Johnston, who was a post war rider. Now, you're going to ask me why he changed his name.....The problem is I can't remember off hand!!! I'll look it up in his autobiography when I get home...the only problem is I won't be going home until next Thursday (22 January) as I'm off to Lanzarote later. I hope you can wait!

Actually Ron Johnson's real name was Ron Johnston...but let's not get in to that one.

Those were the days, though you are right in principle that I'm not THAT old. Actually I did see Ron Johnson ride in 1960 in a second half race at New Cross when he was over 50. I don't think he would have made any World Final that year!

It's taken me some time to get round to this but I'll go for two riders who, in my opinion, are the best never to have appeared in a World Final since it started in 1936: Max Grosskreutz Ron Johnson