norbold

Another statistic. Speedway Star started their World Rankings in 1956. Between 1956 and 1962, Fundin was ranked number one in the world in six out of the seven years. The only year he missed was 1958 when Briggs was ranked top and Fundin was second. Craven only managed runner-up spot once in 1962. Between 1956 and 62 his ranking was 4 3 3 3 3 6 2, compared to Fundin's 1121111.

I know you are a great Peter Craven fan, Jim, but what I meant was I don't think that Craven was ever clearly the number one in the world in the same way that Moore was around 1954-5 or Fundin was around 1960-63 or Briggs around 1964-6. Certainly he was one of the top three or four, especially in that period between 1956 and 1959 when Moore, Fundin, Briggs and Craven were all capable of beating each other, but I think Moore, Fundin and Briggs all had their day as clear number 1 and Craven never did. Just my opinion.

Starting at the beginning I'd put the baton passing like this: Frank Arthur, Vic Huxley, Tom Farndon, Bluey Wilkinson, Gap for 2nd World War, Vic Duggan, Jack Young (yes you're right Shoddy, probably a bit of a gap as I would say Tommy Price and Freddie Williams were not quite in the 'great' bracket) and then as your list, though Craven's era fell wholly within Moore and Fundin's baton holding period and I would argue never clearly the number one in his own right like Moore or Fundin. The above also misses out Jack Parker who was undoubtedly one of the greatest riders of all time with certainly the longest span at the top from about 1930 - 1950, but maybe never the actual top at any time.

Are you a morris dancer then?

You forgot to start with Duggan Shoddy! Why does it break down? Nielsen - Rickardsson seems ok as the latest link. Rickardsson 1994 World Champ, Nielsen 1995. There was an overlap there. And Rickardsson is currently leading the Grand Prix standings. Maybe Crump to follow but a bit early to say.

Yes and Harry Shepherd is also right.

You are right in thinking that...until Jason Crump this year....er...

Yes, I have. 1961 New Cross. Youngie was well past his best then though he was still a heat leader with Coventry, but not in the same class as the 'Big 5' of the period. August 30 1961, King of the South Cup. Youngie scored 14 points having beaten Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ron How, Peter Moore and Eric Williams amongst others on the way. The only rider to beat him was Ronnie Moore. However Moore also dropped a point during the meeting, so there was a run-off which Youngie duly won. So during the course of the evening he had beaten Fundin, Briggs and Moore to take the title. The following week, 6 September 1961, the Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy. Youngie again scored 14 points, this time beating Moore, Briggs and Bjorn Knutson along the way. The only rider to beat him on the night was Peter Craven. However, Craven dropped three points during the meeting, so Youngie won without the need for a run-off this time. He was absolutely brilliant and there was no doubt that on those two nights at New Cross the speedway world had a 'Big 6' not just 5. He rode like he must have ridden in the early 50s. I feel very privileged to have seen Youngie at his best long after I thought I'd missed his best years. He was a great rider. And always had to do it from behind as he was one of the world's worst gaters.

We aim to please.

73.8

I suppose I should do my best I've seen 7, having already done my best of all time. Here goes then: 1. Ove Fundin 2. Ivan Mauger 3. Tony Rickardsson 4. Barry Briggs 5. Hans Nielsen 6. Bjorn Knutsson 7. Michael Lee (1977-80 version)

Sorry, Shoddy, I see what you mean now about your top 7. As far as Tom Farndon is concerned I don't think it is an emotional choice. After all I never saw him ride - I'm not that old - even though today is my first Official day of retirement! My view of Farndon is based on his achievements and what other riders said about his riding. Anyone who held every National League track record simultaneously can't be bad. He won the 1933 Star Riders' Championship and was favourite for the 1935 Final which, of course, he never competed in due to his fatal accident the night before. He was also unbeatable in the British Indivdual Match Race Championship and made the title his own beating off challenges from the likes of Vic Huxley, Dick Case, Max Grosskreutz and Ron Johnson. So much so that after his death the title was suspended until after the War. He also won the London Riders' Championship twice at a time when the title was second only to the Star Riders. He was also a regular for the England Test team. His team mate Ron Johnson said that Farndon could ride the white line as fast as other riders rode the outside of the track. Who knows what he might have achieved had he lived.

Thank you Shoddy. Have I convinced you about Vic Duggan yet!!!??? Top 7 ever in order of world titles won...Vic Huxley?

Sorry, can't help you there.

You know what I mean.....

I think we need two categories here: 1. Best of all time 2. Best I've actually seen Otherwise it sems to suggest that there were no top class riders before about 1980.....

Every time I do this I think I finish up with something different. But here goes: 1. Ove Fundin 2. Ivan Mauger 3. Tom Farndon 4. Vic Duggan 5. Vic Huxley 6. Tony Rickardsson 7. Barry Briggs

Erm sorry no idea what happened to him.

I can't remember where I got it. I've had it for years. Long before eBay! It was in the days when speedway memorabilia was cheap - comparatively.

Interestingly, I have just looked up my prized possession - the programme for the 1935 Star Riders' Final - and the format for that was the same as the later format (ie. post 1952).

Never saw any trouble in my time at New Cross or West Ham. Though the crowd at New Cross did boo Ronnie Moore once because he'd made some unkind remarks about Johnnie Hoskins in the Speedway Star! Does that count?

In 1938 the riders rode in the following heats: 1: 1-6-10-14-18 2: 1-5-9-11-17 3: 1-7-13-15-19 4: 1-8-12-16-20 5: 2-5-10-15-20 6: 2-6-9-16-19 7: 2-7-11-12-18 8: 1-8-13-14-17 9: 3-5-13-16-18 10: 3-6-12-15-17 11: 3-7-9-14-20 12: 3-8-10-11-19 13: 4-5-12-14-19 14: 4-6-11-13-20 15: 4-7-10-16-17 16: 4-8-9-15-18 This remained the format until 1951. The 1952 format was changed to the one which remained in operation until the end of the one-off Finals.

Only one? That's good to know.

Yes thanks Jim. Arrived yesterday. Haven't had a chance to have a look at it yet, but when I'm retired.....

Yes he did have a motor cycle shop in South London.