norbold

Umm ---I asked you to stand up mate as I was dying for the loo and shook your hand and I said Hi Norbold Im Nevsy and you sort of nodded and sat back down again after Id passed. Just to prove it heres your pic - pic 2 grinning at me from just a few seats along....Honestly...some people http://community.webshots.com/scripts/edit...69506&ran=26393 Oh yes, I remember now you say that... :oops:

We're getting there...More news from Ross: "Bert Spencer was the Plymouth captain in 1931. Paddy Dean also rode for the club. Quite a number of other riders rode for Plymouth that season including :- Bert Jones, Maurie Bradshaw , Noel Johnson (all Australians), Spencer Stratton & Charlie Blacklock (Kiwis), George Preston, Peter Slade, Fred Hawken, Bill White and Bill Clibbett. There is no mention of Frank Varey appearing at the track that season, either with a visiting team or for second half racing. Quite a few First Division clubs did race at Plymouth that year including West Ham. Billy Lamont rode in a second half. Tom Farndon was brilliant at his appearance. As I don't have photos of most of the riders whom I mentioned appeared for Plymouth, the task of naming all those in the photo is almost impossible unless I turn up team photos. At least I now know where and when the photo was taken." NB to all doubters...Note the comment about Tom Farndon!

Well, I had a good time at Cardiff, though I was disappointed that Chris Louis didn't win.... Met lots of old friends and found some new Forum members. Though I must have missed out on Nevsy somewhere. Why did no-one introduce us? Same time next year, Fd? In the meantime here are a few photos of that momentous occasion: Cardiff 2004 The video is better though x-rated because of Full Throttle's shameless performance in going topless which was (un)fortunately caught on camera.

Saw Laurie and Pete at the Veteran Speedway Riders Association Dinner this year. There's a photo of Pete at the dinner on here If that doesn't work let me know!

Well, heat one looks a certainty for Greg Hancock after the Ipswich v. Oxford match on Thursday!

Very tempting Sir Lunchy, but I don't think I'll be out in Australia at the New Year....still, you never know.....

More news from Ross: "I have very limited knowledge of Plymouth Speedway. If the photo was taken in 1931, the club wasn't in the League that year to the best of my recollection and had just opened during the season. The copy of the photo I saw yesterday looked like a promotional exercise as it had a banner above the photo, "Plymouth Speedway" (rainbow-shaped), in large letters. If Plymouth wasn't in the League, the photo would probably have been taken at an open meeting. Also, if my memory is correct, both Paddy Dean and Frank Varey were on Belle Vue's books at the time. I saw a second photograph yesterday of a group of riders wearing the same design of race jackets (vertical halves, some with the light half on the right and some with it on the left) which looks as if it was taken at the same time as the photo on the track. In this photo the riders ( 7 in this instance) aren't wearing helmets. Paddy Dean is obvious and as for the one I think is Bert Spencer, the distinctive features (particularly the ears) seem to back my judgement."

Well that's told me off.

Just had the following e-mail from Ross: Hello Norman, I've had some success with the photo. It was taken at Plymouth Speedway. Paddy Dean is definitely the rider on the far left.I would say the year was 1931 which was (to the best of my knowledge) the only year other than 1928 that Dean raced in Britain. The photo in question turns out to have come from Paddy Dean's collection. I today saw another from Paddy's collection which shows the riders without their helmets on. Now comes the task of identifying the rest of them. Ross

Well the thread is called "The Greatest Seven riders ever". Seems inevitable that they are likely to have been world champions....

Just another thought on ILS's comment above. I agree that Briggs came into his own in the mid 60s after the others had mainly disappeared from the scene, but it is an interesting point that, in fact, the last of the Big 5 to win the World Championship was Ove Fundin in 1967. So even past his best and during the Briggs heyday he was still good enough to be World Champion. No doubt in my mind who was the greatest!

Thanks for that. Yes, second from the right certainly looks like Frank Varey. Not sure about the other two though...

You should have asked me. I've got all the 1959 New Cross programmes.

Fairly sure it's John Alfred myself....

The years I have quoted were when they were all in competitive league and/or International racing still

Thanks Team Man. I hadn't worked it out, but now you mention it I think you are right. Thank you.

I think it's you! Ronnie Moore 1950-1975; Barry Briggs 1952-1976; Ove Fundin 1953-1970s; Jack Parker 1928-1954; Tommy Price 1935-1956; Olle Nygren 1949-1970s and many others

It works for me ok. Try this instead http://community.webshots.com/user/norbold and go to various tracks and then the last photograph entitled 'Plymouth?'

He wasn't put on the 20 yard handicap because the whole idea was scrapped following protests from Ove and the other two.

It's just so hard to compare riders of different eras. To a large extent you have to go by results. There is an argument to say that perhaps the Big 5 weren't really that good because none of them dominated the sport in the way that Mauger or Rickardsson (or Duggan - sorry, Shoddy ) have done in their time. On the other hand you could say that it just shows that Mauger and Rickardsson had no opposition like the Big 5 did and weren't really that good -just the best of a mediocre bunch. The argument can be used either way. I think you're right about the mid 80s. But it also makes the point above in a way. Would Nielsen and Gundersen still be in the all-time greats if Lee and Penhall had still been around at their best? Would they have won so many World Titles? Who knows? Incidentally a rider I think often gets overlooked is Gote Nordin. In my opinion he was right up there with Fundin, Briggs and Knutson c. 1963. There was some talk of him being put on the same 20 yard handicap that they had at the time.

I think you're spot on ILS.

Can anyone help identify the latest photograph I have uploaded to http://community.webshots.com/scripts/edit...bumID=128567284 It was sent to me by Australian speedway historian, Ross Garrigan. He says he was told that it is a photograph taken in Australia in 1926, but he thinks it more likely to be in Britain in 1932. He thinks it is Plymouth. Can anyone confirm or not? Also can anyone identify the riders. Ross thinks the rider on the far left is Paddy Dean and third from the left is Bert Spencer. Help anyone?

Not sure what your analogy is. Are you saying that even if Craven magaged to beat Fundin more times than vice versa, Fundin would still be number one as he won the World Title 5 times to Craven's 2? If that's what you're saying I agree with your analogy.

Over to Peter Oakes then....

Not bad for Moore then considering he missed the 1957 season and only came back late in the 1958 season. Had he been in the 1957 Final I think he would have managed more than 5 points. Moore's best years were 1954 and 5 before the rankings. However he was ranked second in 1956, 59 and 60 as well and also above Craven in 1961. Craven was only ranked above him in 1957 (the year he didn't ride), 1958 (the year he missed half the season) and 1962. I'm not saying Craven was a duffer or anything. Of course he was an all-time great and I agree he should be included in any list of all time greats. As a matter of fact I believe he was the rider who beat Fundin more times than any other rider but I still think he was never quite the number one in any particular year - a bit like Jack Parker.