norbold

Well the thread is called "The Greatest Seven riders ever". Seems inevitable that they are likely to have been world champions....

Just another thought on ILS's comment above. I agree that Briggs came into his own in the mid 60s after the others had mainly disappeared from the scene, but it is an interesting point that, in fact, the last of the Big 5 to win the World Championship was Ove Fundin in 1967. So even past his best and during the Briggs heyday he was still good enough to be World Champion. No doubt in my mind who was the greatest!

Thanks for that. Yes, second from the right certainly looks like Frank Varey. Not sure about the other two though...

You should have asked me. I've got all the 1959 New Cross programmes.

Fairly sure it's John Alfred myself....

The years I have quoted were when they were all in competitive league and/or International racing still

Thanks Team Man. I hadn't worked it out, but now you mention it I think you are right. Thank you.

I think it's you! Ronnie Moore 1950-1975; Barry Briggs 1952-1976; Ove Fundin 1953-1970s; Jack Parker 1928-1954; Tommy Price 1935-1956; Olle Nygren 1949-1970s and many others

It works for me ok. Try this instead http://community.webshots.com/user/norbold and go to various tracks and then the last photograph entitled 'Plymouth?'

He wasn't put on the 20 yard handicap because the whole idea was scrapped following protests from Ove and the other two.

It's just so hard to compare riders of different eras. To a large extent you have to go by results. There is an argument to say that perhaps the Big 5 weren't really that good because none of them dominated the sport in the way that Mauger or Rickardsson (or Duggan - sorry, Shoddy ) have done in their time. On the other hand you could say that it just shows that Mauger and Rickardsson had no opposition like the Big 5 did and weren't really that good -just the best of a mediocre bunch. The argument can be used either way. I think you're right about the mid 80s. But it also makes the point above in a way. Would Nielsen and Gundersen still be in the all-time greats if Lee and Penhall had still been around at their best? Would they have won so many World Titles? Who knows? Incidentally a rider I think often gets overlooked is Gote Nordin. In my opinion he was right up there with Fundin, Briggs and Knutson c. 1963. There was some talk of him being put on the same 20 yard handicap that they had at the time.

I think you're spot on ILS.

Can anyone help identify the latest photograph I have uploaded to http://community.webshots.com/scripts/edit...bumID=128567284 It was sent to me by Australian speedway historian, Ross Garrigan. He says he was told that it is a photograph taken in Australia in 1926, but he thinks it more likely to be in Britain in 1932. He thinks it is Plymouth. Can anyone confirm or not? Also can anyone identify the riders. Ross thinks the rider on the far left is Paddy Dean and third from the left is Bert Spencer. Help anyone?

Not sure what your analogy is. Are you saying that even if Craven magaged to beat Fundin more times than vice versa, Fundin would still be number one as he won the World Title 5 times to Craven's 2? If that's what you're saying I agree with your analogy.

Over to Peter Oakes then....

Not bad for Moore then considering he missed the 1957 season and only came back late in the 1958 season. Had he been in the 1957 Final I think he would have managed more than 5 points. Moore's best years were 1954 and 5 before the rankings. However he was ranked second in 1956, 59 and 60 as well and also above Craven in 1961. Craven was only ranked above him in 1957 (the year he didn't ride), 1958 (the year he missed half the season) and 1962. I'm not saying Craven was a duffer or anything. Of course he was an all-time great and I agree he should be included in any list of all time greats. As a matter of fact I believe he was the rider who beat Fundin more times than any other rider but I still think he was never quite the number one in any particular year - a bit like Jack Parker.

Another statistic. Speedway Star started their World Rankings in 1956. Between 1956 and 1962, Fundin was ranked number one in the world in six out of the seven years. The only year he missed was 1958 when Briggs was ranked top and Fundin was second. Craven only managed runner-up spot once in 1962. Between 1956 and 62 his ranking was 4 3 3 3 3 6 2, compared to Fundin's 1121111.

I know you are a great Peter Craven fan, Jim, but what I meant was I don't think that Craven was ever clearly the number one in the world in the same way that Moore was around 1954-5 or Fundin was around 1960-63 or Briggs around 1964-6. Certainly he was one of the top three or four, especially in that period between 1956 and 1959 when Moore, Fundin, Briggs and Craven were all capable of beating each other, but I think Moore, Fundin and Briggs all had their day as clear number 1 and Craven never did. Just my opinion.

Starting at the beginning I'd put the baton passing like this: Frank Arthur, Vic Huxley, Tom Farndon, Bluey Wilkinson, Gap for 2nd World War, Vic Duggan, Jack Young (yes you're right Shoddy, probably a bit of a gap as I would say Tommy Price and Freddie Williams were not quite in the 'great' bracket) and then as your list, though Craven's era fell wholly within Moore and Fundin's baton holding period and I would argue never clearly the number one in his own right like Moore or Fundin. The above also misses out Jack Parker who was undoubtedly one of the greatest riders of all time with certainly the longest span at the top from about 1930 - 1950, but maybe never the actual top at any time.

Are you a morris dancer then?

You forgot to start with Duggan Shoddy! Why does it break down? Nielsen - Rickardsson seems ok as the latest link. Rickardsson 1994 World Champ, Nielsen 1995. There was an overlap there. And Rickardsson is currently leading the Grand Prix standings. Maybe Crump to follow but a bit early to say.

Yes and Harry Shepherd is also right.

You are right in thinking that...until Jason Crump this year....er...

Yes, I have. 1961 New Cross. Youngie was well past his best then though he was still a heat leader with Coventry, but not in the same class as the 'Big 5' of the period. August 30 1961, King of the South Cup. Youngie scored 14 points having beaten Ove Fundin, Barry Briggs, Ron How, Peter Moore and Eric Williams amongst others on the way. The only rider to beat him was Ronnie Moore. However Moore also dropped a point during the meeting, so there was a run-off which Youngie duly won. So during the course of the evening he had beaten Fundin, Briggs and Moore to take the title. The following week, 6 September 1961, the Tom Farndon Memorial Trophy. Youngie again scored 14 points, this time beating Moore, Briggs and Bjorn Knutson along the way. The only rider to beat him on the night was Peter Craven. However, Craven dropped three points during the meeting, so Youngie won without the need for a run-off this time. He was absolutely brilliant and there was no doubt that on those two nights at New Cross the speedway world had a 'Big 6' not just 5. He rode like he must have ridden in the early 50s. I feel very privileged to have seen Youngie at his best long after I thought I'd missed his best years. He was a great rider. And always had to do it from behind as he was one of the world's worst gaters.

We aim to please.