norbold

I believe the pre-war crowd figures for New Cross were around the 20 - 25,000 mark. It was a small stadium so it was practically packed out most meetings Thank you for those few kind words Ian. I have seen the opening night attendance at Wembley in 1970 put at between 17 and 20,000 spectators (one of whom was me!). And yes, they continued to average about 10 - 12,000. I believe the last night crowd was in the region of 10,000. In contrast to New Cross, of course, Wembley was a very large stadium so 10,000 seemed very small in comparison. There were often complaints about lack of atmosphere during the 70s revival. Remember that just after the War, Wembley had been attracting regular weekly gates of 40 - 50,000.

Yes, exactly the same situation with Norwich, who were probably the best supported team in the country at the time of their demise. Their owners sold the land for property development.

I think you're on dangerous territory here, Ian! The Entertainments Tax was originally introduced in 1916. It was increased in 1949 and again in 1950....

I've just been looking at the 1951 World Final gate receipts. The total taken was £24,241 of which 46.5% went in Entertainment Tax, i.e. £11,279. Had it been a soccer, rugby, cricket or ice hockey match or an athletics, lawn tennis, swimming, cycling or boxing meeting the tax taken would have been £3,344 (13.79%). The comment from the Speedway Control Board was, "The comparatively high admission charges made necessary by this heavy tax have undoubtedly contributed to the decline in attendances on many tracks during the year. If justice was done and this heavy and illogical tax was adjusted to the level obtaining for other non-betting sports, promoters would be able to reduce admission charges, giving a stimulus to attendances, badly needed by many tracks if they are to survive." Incientally the attendance at the 1951 World Final was 93,000

Thanks Addy. You're well above Ian now!

I have to say, Ian, that Addy is now well ahead of you on the norbold popularity meter!

Good thread and good choices Ian. I was lucky enough to start off at New Cross in 1960, promoted by the incomparable Johnnie Hoskins. There is no doubt he was still a great character, 37 years after he says he invented the sport. He created so much publicity for the club and speedway seizing on every incident and getting it in to the local papers and the speedway press. I've never really seen Ian Hoskins or Trevor Redmond at close quarters so can't really comment. You are right about Mike Parker and I would agree with you about what he did for the sport. He revived Hackney amongst others, and you are also right, he was very dull! But his place is certainly assured. Len Silver is probably the last in the mould of the Johnnie Hoskins type promoter and, love him or hate him, you can't really belittle his place in the history of speedway. He also loved Rye House so much he bought the company.... Dave Lanning was another great personality, but he wasn't promoter at West Ham in their great year of 1965 - that was former World Champion Tommy Price. Two other names I would like to add - Ronnie Greene. A strict disciplinarian by all accounts but his riders loved him and he produced arguably the greatest team of all time in the late 50s and early 60s with Wimbledon. The other is John Berry. So inexperienced when he came in to the sport that the Control Board were dubious about allowing him a license, but look what he managed over the years. I think he is particularly worthy of being named as one of the greats for getting together a team of local riders able to take on everyone and win the league. He had no need to resort to the chequebook. He trained up his own riders. He was also absolutley opposed to guest riders and even when one of his top riders was injured he would replace them with another local lad. Well, that's my fourpennorth. Any more for any more?

Funnily enough someone has just put a sign up over where the hole used to be saying "Moss Brothers - Property Developers". I think they must be turning the hole in to a tourist attraction. You know, cafe, souvenir shop, that sort of thing. Yes, we used to have smugglers in Clacton. You can read all about them in a splendid book called Clacon Past available Here

Thanks Addy. I think the chances of me making it to Belle Vue on Monday are pretty slim. I can't even get out of the end of my road at the moment what with all the snow. Perhaps you could ask him for me, Addy????

Now you sound like Boris Johnson!

You scamp, Ian.

Thanks Jim.

Speedway in London? That's a good book.

I've already done that thanks, Sotonian. but his programmes are not filled in.

Good thinking, Gem. Thanks. Yes I would like to contact him.

Yes please, Jim. But I see you've already put Mike on there as a contact for the book. Mind you, there's always "Speedway in East Anglia"... The site's coming along really well, Jim. Well done.

Does anyone have either a filled in programme or know the results of the first meetings at Belle Vue for either the meeting at Kirkmanshulme Lane on 28/7/1928 or Hyde Road on 23/3/1929? I would be very grateful for information on these two meetings. Thank you.

Yes, speedway was taxed at a higher rate than football. I can't recall the exact amounts at the moment but I can find out. The reason speedway was taxed higher was because it was not classed as a sport but a trial of speed!

Yes, I'm sure that's all very true, Ian, but I don't think it answers the question I was answering. The point I was making was why were tracks being forced to close when their attendences were well in excess of 5000 and yet today we have tracks open with attendances in the hundreds? Why did 1950s tracks need so many customers to remain open?

Yes, that's an interesting point, arnie. Speedway was in serious decline in the mid 50s. From three divisions plus open tracks in the late 40s down to just one league of ten teams plus Yarmouth in the Junior League in 1958 (speedway's worst year for numbers of tracks operating) and yet attendances were much higher than now. It makes you wonder why tracks couldn't keep going then but can now with much lower attendances. Was it all down to Entertainment Tax?

Yes, he was a novice. I don't think he ever actually made the team but he did ride in the second half a number of times. He probably didn't make it because he was leg trailing!

That reminds me...Do you remember Nev Slee at West Ham? He used to leg trail.

Good to hear there is going to be a book about Brian Crutcher. A great rider. One of the main candidates for greatest rider never to win the World Championship. Unfortunately I never saw him as he retired the day I went to my first speedway meeting back in 1960. I've always felt somehow responsible for his retirement! Good luck with the book. Over to # Name Removed #....

There is still one mystery regarding Mr Potter. As he appears not to have started riding until after the War why do you think he was leg trailing in your photograph, NOBBY?

Thank you for the vote of confidence, Gem. Unfortunately I don't think I can help very much, other than to say, he definitely did not ride for Norwich. I don't know of him riding for Wimbledon either, but I'm not totally sure about that. p.s., just found this in the 1954 Stenner's under the report on Stoke: "One man deserved a medal for his constant trying, Don Potter. Model of a good teamster, Potter whipped life into the Sun Street side at the end to see the season out with at least a moderate amount of home success."