norbold

I agree that in any discussion of the greatest ever you have to include Rickardsson. But really it's impossible to say. How many people would now include Vic Huxley in their greatest ever? And yet he dominated the sport in the late 20s and early 30s in the same way that Fundin, Mauger and Rickardsson did (do) in their time. But there are now very few people left alive who saw him in his prime. "Greatest evers" are always skewed to recent riders because that's who people have seen. It's not to say they are wrong. Rickardsson might be the greatest ever. But how can you tell? Can anyone really be the greatest ever? Put Huxley, Fundin, Mauger, Rickardsson in a series of races together, assuming they could all start on equal terms with machinery, current techniques etc. and could you really say that one of them would consistently beat the others? Wouldn't they all win their fair share of races? It's all good fun arguing over the respective merits of riders from different eras but it's a sterile argument in real terms.

The converse to that is that riders like Ove Fundin and Ivan Mauger might have won MORE World titles under the Grand Prix system as in their own time they were just as dominant as Trick and under the Grand Prix system wouldn't have lost out just by losing on one big night. The fact of the matter is no-one will ever be able to say who is/was the best ever nor as every one will have their own ideas based mostly on who they have seen in their life.

Exactly, Shazzy. That's the point I was trying to make.

Definitely an excellent win for the world's third or fourth or maybe fifth greatest ever rider.

As you know Jim, my first meeting was also at New Cross on 11 May 1960. Obviously therefore I didn't see PC in 1959. Looking at results from that year he did seem to do very well at the Frying Pan, but, whenever I saw him in 1960 and 1961, I have to say he didn't seem to be able to master it. Briggo didn't ride well there either, which was unfortunate because, of course, he rode for us in 1960. Fundin and Moore were the real masters of New Cross in my opinion and Jack Young on a couple of occasions rode it like he must have ridden in the early 50s. Bob Andrews was another who always rode New Cross well.

Ah Yes, 17 April 1946: New Cross 46 The Rest 37 For New Cross: Ron Johnson 12, Eric French 9 Geoff Pymar 9 The Rest: Ron Clarke 8 Tommy Price 8, Wally Lloyd 6

I would like to add my congratulations to everyone else's.Backtrack is an excellent read and this issue certainly keeps up its very high standard. Just one point of clarification on your response above though, Tony. Wimbledon were also open in 1985, though not in the SENIOR LEAGUE. They closed in 1991, the same year as Hackney.

Rayleigh started the 1964 season with a series of open meetings after withdrawing from the Provincial League at the end of 1963. The promoters were Wally Clark, Stan Clark and Maurie McDermott. Later in the year they took part in the Metropolitan League with Eastbourne, Weymouth, Newpool (a combination of Newport and Poole juniors) and Ipswich with a view the rejoining the Provincial League in 1965. The 1964 season was run under the Provincial League banner. 1964 was the year the Provincial League was officially banned, so in that sense the Rayleigh management did fall foul of officialdom in the same way that all Provincial League tracks did, but when the new British League was formed in 1965, they were back in the British League. In fact Rayleigh had originally wanted to stay official in 1964 and operate within the National League orbit and actually arranged for their opening match to be against Norwich but the National League rules at the time prohibited foreigners riding on open meeting tracks, so Norwich would not have been able to use Fundin and Nygren. That same rule would have applied to all challenge matches in 1964, so they decided to throw in their lot with the Provincial League instead.

I'll be there Jim...

Absolutely right, Jim. You feel as though he could get on a bike now and still win the World Championship! Like you I also feel it a privilege to know him. Apart from his "zest for life" he is such a gentleman, very kind, modest and thoughtful and always willing and ready to talk.

Thanks Jim. It's always good to hear from Ove.

All this just shows the nonsense of having seven of the riders decided by nomination and not by a proper competition. Bring back Andy Smith, I say.

I think it's almost certain Lee will be back next year. After this and the World Cup and the need to keep at least two British riders in the GP for revenue purposes, he'll be there.

Hans Nielsen. Second in 1984, 1985, 1988, 1993, 1994, 1996 Six times runner-up!

Congratulations, Tony. There is absolutley no doubt now that he has to figure in the perennial arguments about who was the greatest ever. He has dominated the mid 90s to mid 00s (so far!) in a way that only the true greats do - Fundin (mid 50s to mid 60s) and Mauger (late 60s to late 70s) for example. You've got to feel sorry for Jason though, coming up against someone like this. If there had been no Trick, then Crumpie would have started his domination by now. One first and four seconds! Keep going, Tony. Seven next year?

That's the point Bert. The yellow helmet looked like the white one on black and White TV, that's why the change to yellow and black. Speedway was televised at least from 1946, maybe pre-War, but it was certainly filmed regularly for Pathe News.

And I've got a few from Hackney and Rye House on my Webshots. Link in my sig.

Thanks dtd. Any luck with Mr Byers yet?

No, it doesn't mean that. It means that chose is the past tense of choose. Chose in the context you used it is wrong..... Incidentally, congratulations to the Poles. I think the GB team have a lot of serious thinking to do. We need to look more to grass roots and training up riders and when they get to International level to somehow instill in them that indefinable x factor we have spoken about on other threads. Perhaps our riders are too jolly nice to be ruthless enough like Gollob, Pedersen, Rickardsson, Crump for example to ever make it right to the top. Steady might just have it.....we'll see over the next couple of seasons.

I realise this might be a bit of a long shot but does anyone have the Wembley riders' averages (or %ages) for 1930 and 1932? Or know where I can get them. Also, I am on the look-out (for my next book) for photographs of pre-War Wembley riders such as Buster Frogley, Ginger Lees, Harry Whitfield, Frank Charles, Gordon Byers, George Greenwood, Norman Evans, etc. etc. Thank you.

Yes, they all rode for Great Britain in the old World Team Cup when Great Britain itself was too weak to compete at that level, so they lumped British Commonwealth riders in as Great Britain.

OK, I'll e-mail you a copy.

When did Ronnie Moore ride for England?

I have a portrait photograph of Gordon in White City colours, not actually riding. If you'd like it I can scan it in and e-mail it to you.

I've got a loft like that!