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So he can officially be recognised as second or third but won't officially be in the top eight? Don't you just love speedway rules???

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that one.

No, I've not come across that before either. Perhaps a few references from the good doctor would be helpful.

The final greyhound meeting at Harringay was held on 25 September 1987 after which the stadium closed.

I e-mailed Terry to let him know he'd had a mention on the Forum. This is his reply: "I think that I still have that Elton John 45 in my loft, It was given to me to play by Paul Deal who was the P.R. man for Rayleigh at the time, Elton had cut the disc as a demo I think at Paul had got a copy hot of the presses and brought it to the track for us to play, which needless to say I did frequently."

There is of course a case for all four back...but then is that fair on the other two riders in the race who weren't involved at all? Perhaps there could be a case for excluding both.

Well, I have now seen the race at last. I was unable to watch it last night but recorded it and saw it this morning. Having watched it several times, I think it was a very tough decision to make. No doubt a 50-50 call. I think if I'd been the ref I would probably have excluded Andersen but I've got no real argument with the decision. Andersen was not 100% at fault and the decision certainly doesn't make speedway "a joke".

This thread started with this. The subsequent discussion has shown that it was not an easy decision to make and not everyone agrees the referee was at fault. Many agree with his decision. Some decisions are very hard to make. If the referee gets it wrong in some people's opinion it doesn't mean the sport is a joke any more than a wrong lbw decision makes cricket a joke. Let's get a bit of perspective on this, eh?

Arena Essex is less than 20 miles from Rayleigh.

The 1948 meeting was held in Copenhagen. The 1949 meeting was held in Trondheim. Samsing (Norway) was 2nd, Aage Andersen (Denmark) 3rd and Andreassen (Norway) 4th. No Swedes or Finns took part. 1950: ? No Swedes took part, that's all I know about that one! 1951: ? No Swedes again. Well, it's a start...

Just look for anyone who gets very sensitive if you don't use his proper title of Dr.

I think Dr. Herbie's disappeared now he's had his say about John Hyam....

I say Herbie old chap, you still haven't answered this question. Unlike you to be at a loss for words.

Name one book of mine that has page after page of timings.

And there's me thinking that Simmo The Whole Truth is the autobiography of a speedway rider...

What other professional writers have written speedway books in recent years then?

It's true John Chaplin is a professional writer, but, of all those who have produced speedway books in the last few years he is probably the only one. There are three things that irk me about Brian Belton's books (I haven't read the Fay Taylour book yet I have to say): 1. The amount of plagiarised material. 2. The severe inaccuracies. 3. The amont of irrelevant material. It has nothing to do with lists of facts as far as I am concerned. Once again there are many other books written by fans which don't have lists and tables which have not been criticised like Mr Belton's.

Maybe he is made the butt of intolerance because his books are not very good and mostly second hand. Nothing to do with him being a fan. Most speedway books are written by fans rather than professional writers but they don't, by and large, come in for the same criticism. And, although he may not be a professional writer, he has had 14 books published.

Oh well it makes a change to plagiarise your own material I suppose...

Why have you found it necessary to say this twice on two separate threads?

I wonder why????

I wouldn't like to comment on where Brian Belton got his material from. Just like I wouldn't like to comment on where he got most of the material about West Ham he used for his West Ham book from...

Now, I wonder why that could be....?

I used to see Hackney Cheetahs round about 1964/5. That's definitely what they were called then...

Looking through Friends Reunited for my secondary school the other day I noticed the name Eddie Oram. I had a vague memory that Eddie used to ride cycle speedway so I e-mailed him and asked him if he had any memories of the time. This is what he sent...Warning! There is a twist at the end! "Hackney Cheetahs [A great name for you, eh, cheetahhawk!?] cycle speedway team rode at Well Street Common; they ran 2 teams but I can't remember the league name - I can remember riding in a National KO competition at Hungerford when the club chartered a double decker bus to take us there, bikes on the bottom deck and riders upstairs! "Racing bibs were blue with a yellow cheetahs head on the front and a yellow number on the reverse "Star rider and number 1 was Vic Haines, whose father ran the club together with a friend of his, Sid, who marshalled the paddock. Haines' lived in Malvern Road, Dalston and Mr Haines had a Morris Commercial Van in which Vic was ferried to all the competitions, and I believe he did reach the National Individual Riders Final on 1 or 2 occasions "The other heat leaders for the first team were Tony White, who lived in a house overlooking the common, and Tony Marsh, who came from Tottenham way I think and was a London black cab driver - I used to see him from time to time when I was working in London, but that was almost 30 years ago. The other riders were Brian Hunnable, Ricky Holt, and then I'm out of names "You would be more interested in the second team, where 2 of my teammates were Ronnie and Terry Russell "To the best of my knowledge nobody went from cycle speedway to speedway, but Terry has become something of an entrepreneur in the sport, currently running Eastbourne, Swindon and the dormant Exeter - with a business management contract at Oxford. Ronnie tookover the running of Arena Essex this season from Terry "Another acquaintance of mine, not connected with cycle speedway, is currently in advanced negotiations with Terry to purchase a major shareholding in Eastbourne. Given that you have written about Eastbourne I may be able to give you some story lines, and an introduction, to my friend - assuming he's successful. "Best wishes Eddie"